Woodnet Forums
GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Printable Version

+- Woodnet Forums (https://forums.woodnet.net)
+-- Thread: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle (/showthread.php?tid=7372810)

Pages: 1 2

GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Grey Mountain - 04-14-2023

I am replacing a GFCI in an older home with only two wires coming in -- hot and neutral.
The existing GFCI is wired thusly:
Hot wire to brass "Line" terminal.
Neutral wire to silver "Load" terminal.
Pigtail from grounding terminal to silver "Load" terminal.
If I move the neutral from "Load" to "Line," the outlet works on the LIne side, but not on Load side -- indicates a bad GFCI.
I replaced the old GFCI, wired hot to brass "Line"
and neutral to silver "Line."
Both Line and Load outlets now work.
I did not pigtail the ground.
I just had all my non-grounded outlets in my home replaced with GFCIs. I did not do the work -- had a licensed electrician do it. I was told that a way to ground an ungrounded receptacle was to use a GFCI, but I don't know how he wired them.
Suggestions? I am in Indiana at a friends home, not back in Oklahoma, otherwise I would have had the same electrician switch it out.
Suggestions?

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Roly - 04-14-2023

(04-14-2023, 08:44 AM)Grey Mountain Wrote: I am replacing a GFCI in an older home with only two wires coming in -- hot and neutral.
The existing GFCI is wired thusly:
Hot wire to brass "Line" terminal.
Neutral wire to silver "Load" terminal.
Pigtail from grounding terminal to silver "Load" terminal.
If I move the neutral from "Load" to "Line," the outlet works on the LIne side, but not on Load side -- indicates a bad GFCI.
I replaced the old GFCI, wired hot to brass "Line"
and neutral to silver "Line."
Both Line and Load outlets now work.
I did not pigtail the ground.
I just had all my non-grounded outlets in my home replaced with GFCIs. I did not do the work -- had a licensed electrician do it.  I was told that a way to ground an ungrounded receptacle was to use a GFCI, but I don't know how he wired them.
Suggestions? I am in Indiana at a friends home, not back in Oklahoma, otherwise I would have had the same electrician switch it out.
Suggestions?

 You are correct in the way you wired it.   In the gfci box there is probably a sticker that states no ground.   It will still operate as a gfci if you get between the hot leg and a ground such as a water pipe.   It will not serve to ground a appliance.   Roly

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Grey Mountain - 04-14-2023

OK. That's the way I understand it. What was the purpose for the pig-tailed ground to neutral load side?

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Roly - 04-14-2023

(04-14-2023, 06:08 PM)Grey Mountain Wrote: OK.  That's the way I understand it. What was the purpose for the pig-tailed ground to neutral load side?

To fool a cheap plug in gfci tester to think it had a ground.    Roly

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - kencombs - 04-14-2023

(04-14-2023, 06:08 PM)Grey Mountain Wrote: OK.  That's the way I understand it. What was the purpose for the pig-tailed ground to neutral load side?

Yep, someone just wanted to fool the tester.  Actually did nothing.

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Snipe Hunter - 04-16-2023

This is called "Bootlegging". The NEC just allowed it in 2018 (iirc) but most jurisdictions have not adopted it. Just remember, it isn't grounded so you are relying on the GFCI to trip as opposed to a direct path to ground to provide safety. They don't always trip.

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Roly - 04-16-2023

(04-16-2023, 08:53 AM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: This is called "Bootlegging". The NEC just allowed it in 2018 (iirc) but most jurisdictions have not adopted it. Just remember, it isn't grounded so you are relying on the GFCI to trip as opposed to a direct path to ground to provide safety. They don't always trip.

Could you be referring to using a ground from a different circuit being used instead of using the neutral as a ground ?  Roly

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Snipe Hunter - 04-19-2023

(04-16-2023, 10:23 AM)Roly Wrote: Could you be referring to using a ground from a different circuit being used instead of using the neutral as a ground ?  Roly

No. Service Hot to hot on the receptacle. Service Neutral to neutral on the receptacle with a jumper to the ground screw on the receptacle. Not acceptable with a traditional non-gfci receptacle. And it is only as good as the GFCI because GFCI's do fail a lot more than non-gfci receptacles. And you probably won't know it failed until someone or something gets hurt.
[Image: qbTN13L.jpg]

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Roly - 04-19-2023

(04-19-2023, 07:10 AM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: No. Service Hot to hot on the receptacle. Service Neutral to neutral on the receptacle with a jumper to the ground screw on the receptacle. Not acceptable with a traditional non-gfci receptacle. And it is only as good as the GFCI because GFCI's do fail a lot more than non-gfci receptacles. And you probably won't know it failed until someone or something gets hurt.
[Image: qbTN13L.jpg]
 Never hear of that being code .    It would trip the gfci if there was a ground fault on what was plugged into the gfci but other issues as you stated.  Roly

RE: GFCI in a Two-wire Receptacle - Snipe Hunter - 04-19-2023

(04-19-2023, 08:11 AM)Roly Wrote:  Never hear of that being code .    It would trip the gfci if there was a ground fault on what was plugged into the gfci but other issues as you stated.  Roly

I believe it was adopted in 2018. I do inspections in a town where just about all the houses are early 1900's. Most of the homes have been rewired and re-plumbed. Lots of iron waste water pipe. I do see a lot of houses where just the 1st floor has been rewired or maybe only one or two receptacles in each room. Electricians will bootleg GFCIs in place of old ungrounded receptacles.