BandMan
(Member)
07/03/12 01:34 PM
Home Inspection on New Home

Hey all -

Just purchased a new house that was built as a spec house. The neighborhood is awesome, and the builder finished this one last October (2011). It has been empty, but with all the mechanicals running and it all appears good. Got a heck of a deal on the house because he wants to start three new houses and wanted out from this one.

We have a home inspection scheduled for next Monday, but I wondered if any of you guys had anything on a list that I should be sure to look for in new construction. The builder usually does two to three houses at a time, and rotates all the subs through the houses boom-boom-boom.

Any gotchas to watch out for? Anything to double-check with the inspector? If we catch it before closing, the builder fixes it for free, since it's under warranty. After closing, I'll still have an additional year to add anything to a punch list that I discover if it's 'not right.' Still free fixes. Just gotta catch things if they're wrong...

Thanks in advance.
Kyle

EightFingers
(Moderator)
07/03/12 01:43 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

It would help if you had a picture of the house. Have you ever watched a show called Holmes on Homes? Or Holmes Inspection?

toolie
(Member)
07/03/12 01:44 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

in NY, the state licenses engineers and refers to that designation as a "PE"( professional engineer). it is to engineering what a cpa is to accounting. it's a certification that allows that professinal to charge a fee for his professional services. after owning 3 homes, and having 2 inspected by an unlicensed inspector recommended by the selling broker and one inspected by a licensed PE who was also a licensed home inpsector, make sure you hire an inspector with as many licenses as your state or municipality makes available. that's the guy with a lot to lose if he misses anything. in my cases, the licensed pro was absolutely the right guy and dead on in his evaluation of my last house.

and don't assume anything during the inspection.

ferrari
(TOTAL Noob)
07/03/12 01:50 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

FInd the guy with the most experience you can. Hopefully someone with building/contracting/engineering experience.
And be there and walk around the house with him the day of the inspection.

BandMan
(Member)
07/03/12 02:06 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Frequent watcher of Holmes on Homes/Inspection...this house isn't like those. I've been through it pretty carefully, and with the basement being unfinished right now, it's easy to see how it's all installed.

It's a ranch with a walkout - here's a pic of the front and back:




yes, those are weeds under the deck. I can fix that easily enough.

ferrari
(TOTAL Noob)
07/03/12 02:15 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

One big issue around here on new construction has always been water leaks.
Windows specifically.

daddo
(Sparky)
07/03/12 02:34 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

BandMan said:


Frequent watcher of Holmes on Homes/Inspection...this house isn't like those. I've been through it pretty carefully, and with the basement being unfinished right now, it's easy to see how it's all installed.

It's a ranch with a walkout - here's a pic of the front and back:




yes, those are weeds under the deck. I can fix that easily enough.





Do as the government does- Buy it (pass it), then see whats wrong with it ( whats in it).

daveferg
(member)
07/03/12 02:57 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Nice looking house!!! Watching Holmes is good learning---if only for systems to check. You can pretty much check proper operation of the plumbing fixtures. But be sure to have a look at slope of drain lines.

----Wherever you can, check insulation. You might want to have someone with an infrared camera check as well.

---Electrical should also be checked, though most problems won't show up until your in for a while.

---Make sure the bathrooms aren't vented to the attic or some other mickey mouse arrangement.

Specifically, I would suggest a structural specialist look at that deck. Whenever you have one that high, it's just good insurance to make sure no corners were cut.

Good luck.

BacsiBob
(Honored Veteran)
07/03/12 03:40 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

That's a nice looking house that appears to be sited well.

I was a home inspector the last 10 yrs of my working life. The most common issue I found in new construction involved cutting corners with the HVAC system. In one case, the door to the basement stairs would not stay open when the furnace was running because the high efficiency furnace did not have a combustion air pipe to the exterior installed. The negative pressure was intense. An over or under sized system can be an expensive correction.

I cannot know how well the building codes (if any) are enforced where you are. And, I'm not saying the home inspector should be a code expert. He/she should, however, have a "hands on" background to be able to find the clues that indicate more investigation is needed.

Most states don't license home inspectors. Check out ASHI, NAHI and IHINA.org to learn more.

tsbrewers
(Member)
07/03/12 03:52 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

EightFingers said:


It would help if you had a picture of the house. Have you ever watched a show called Holmes on Homes? Or Holmes Inspection?



Yup, if you do watch the show, anything he does is pretty much crap and if you see stuff that looks like he did it, RUN!

Brew

ferrari
(TOTAL Noob)
07/03/12 03:55 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

You want to see crap?
Take a look at many of the new homes built in my city.

MKepke
(Member)
07/03/12 04:01 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

daveferg said:


<snip>
Specifically, I would suggest a structural specialist look at that deck. Whenever you have one that high, it's just good insurance to make sure no corners were cut.

Good luck.


Dave - you have good eyes or are a good guesser.

What numbskull builds a deck with only 2x2 balusters holding up the safety railing and stair-rails ? Wiggle it, I dare ya.

And the stairs look like a long run for having no intermediate supports...

Since the OP lives in a snow 'n ice climate, he probably wants something protecting people entering/exiting the sliding doors in the back.

Is the gable vent above the garage door functional ? If so, it seems like it'd defeat the soffit vents...

And the OP has basically one downpipe to handle the rainfall shedding off the back of the house..I hope the gutter and downpipe is sized properly.

Holmes would probably complain that the window sills in the front aren't continuous.

-Mark, armchair enthusiast

K. L, McReynolds
(Stairway Custodian)
07/03/12 04:25 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home


Get your own inspector---don't use anyone hired by the builder/realtor. Spending $500 on a good inspector can save you much more than that down the road.



Ridge vent---make sure the soffit vents are clear and the number is correct---a little more area in the soffit vent openings than in the ridge vent openings.

I only see three roof vents, two should be bath plumbing vents----where are the bathroom exhaust vents terminated? If near/at ridge vent areas, that is ok---provided the fans have the correct CFM.

Really check that deck---flashing on the ledger board, how the ledger board is installed, 36+"+ footings on the deck posts---and so on. Agree there should be mid stringer support.

That box on the back---by the small window(bath window?)---is that a fireplace exhaust vent? Might be too close to the window.

blindrid
(Member)
07/03/12 05:45 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

MKepke said:


daveferg said:


<snip>
Specifically, I would suggest a structural specialist look at that deck. Whenever you have one that high, it's just good insurance to make sure no corners were cut.

Good luck.


Dave - you have good eyes or are a good guesser.

What numbskull builds a deck with only 2x2 balusters holding up the safety railing and stair-rails ? Wiggle it, I dare ya.

And the stairs look like a long run for having no intermediate supports...

Since the OP lives in a snow 'n ice climate, he probably wants something protecting people entering/exiting the sliding doors in the back.

Is the gable vent above the garage door functional ? If so, it seems like it'd defeat the soffit vents...

And the OP has basically one downpipe to handle the rainfall shedding off the back of the house..I hope the gutter and downpipe is sized properly.

Holmes would probably complain that the window sills in the front aren't continuous.

-Mark, armchair enthusiast



I don't want the prospective owner to get all bent out of shape.

IMHO:

Deck is fine. Stairs are fine. Protection over the sliding glass door? Design is fine - try to have a builder add "protection"

If you blow the pic up the gable vent is not a gable vent but a decorative molding to look like one. They're on a gazillion houses around here.

I'm not a big fan of an inspection on a new home as the majority of issues i.e. Holmes are hidden and beyond the scope of the inspection. Obviously, a second set of eyes won't hurt but with all of the inspections and code requirements, I would expect an inspector to find little or nothing.

It looks like a nice house - good luck with it. I would kill to have lot sizes that some of you guys have.

daveferg
(member)
07/03/12 05:53 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

I'm afraid I'll have to strongly disagree about the deck! As was pointed out, there are no corner posts on the railings---just 2x2s. Would that thing pass the weight test? I also would want to check how it's tied to the house. Those 4x4 posts look pretty weak unless the deck solidly bolted into the sill or cantilevered. And that long run of stairs---wonder how much it bounces as you climb up. Decks at that height simply cannot be built with any disregard to the highest quality structural support.

blindrid
(Member)
07/03/12 06:03 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Hi Dave: I'm not saying I would build it that way. I'm just saying it probably meets code requirement (I know bare minimum) as there are lot of decks built out here very similar - even with the higher snow load requirements.

Just because we don't like it doesn't make it wrong for home inspection purposes. Obviously, if the inspector writes it up or it would be a good question to ask of him (guessing he knows what he is doing as some of the ones around here are not very good).

Anyway, have a good evening all.

daveferg
(member)
07/03/12 06:12 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

blindrid said:


Hi Dave: I'm not saying I would build it that way. I'm just saying it probably meets code requirement (I know bare minimum) as there are lot of decks built out here very similar - even with the higher snow load requirements.

Just because we don't like it doesn't make it wrong for home inspection purposes. Obviously, if the inspector writes it up or it would be a good question to ask of him (guessing he knows what he is doing as some of the ones around here are not very good).

Anyway, have a good evening all.



Have a Happy 4th!

Like I said, if that wasn't 8-10 foot in the air, I wouldn't be so concerned. And all I'm saying is it deserves a close look, since it is so obviously the bare minimum. But if I were the inspector, I'd be darned sure to recommend a specialist look at it (if I didn't feel confident to do it myself). It would be tragic if the new owner had a party with a bunch of people up on that deck and it collapsed.

GHR
(Member)
07/03/12 06:32 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

BandMan said:


Hey all -

Just purchased a new house that was built as a spec house. The neighborhood is awesome, and the builder finished this one last October (2011). It has been empty, but with all the mechanicals running and it all appears good. Got a heck of a deal on the house because he wants to start three new houses and wanted out from this one.

We have a home inspection scheduled for next Monday, but I wondered if any of you guys had anything on a list that I should be sure to look for in new construction. The builder usually does two to three houses at a time, and rotates all the subs through the houses boom-boom-boom.

Any gotchas to watch out for? Anything to double-check with the inspector? If we catch it before closing, the builder fixes it for free, since it's under warranty. After closing, I'll still have an additional year to add anything to a punch list that I discover if it's 'not right.' Still free fixes. Just gotta catch things if they're wrong...

Thanks in advance.
Kyle



The pictures don't seem to be very helpful. They tend to lead to speculation.

If you like the house and it is well priced compared to the other houses in the neighborhood, buy it.

---

I am sure the home inspector will find some issues. I don't think they will be substantisl.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/03/12 06:51 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

That deck is constructed very poorly. I would be afraid of catastrophic failure. If this is the best example of the type of framing this builder can do I would look elsewhere. Deck collapse is a serious issue that too many people ignore. That deck will put lives in danger.

I would complain and have it re-built to proper standards such as the Prescriptive Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide.

BandMan
(Member)
07/03/12 07:08 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Lots of good opinions - the deck was a concern that I'd already mentioned to the builder. I could see the flashing installed properly, and I know it's tied in correctly to the house. The deck is something that we will mention to be sure to go over with the inspector.

The front gable is purely decorative. I didn't get to choose it - just breaks up the roof line, but has no function.

Good eyes, guys. With the inspector coming on Monday, I'll be with him the entire time. He's certified independently, and I picked him, not my realtor or builder.

The other plus in my uncle, a licensed contractor and is coming along for the inspection. We'll wiggle the rails pretty hard - he's a hefty 275+. :-)

Thanks for the insights.

Kyle

daveferg
(member)
07/03/12 07:24 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Good luck with your inspection. Hope the deck checks out OK---or can be fixed.
___

GHR----Pictures lead to speculation? Yeah---like several of us noted its poor structure---of course I forgot. You're the guy who builds decks they way he wants to and then hangs max occupancy signs on them.

BandMan
(Member)
07/03/12 07:25 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

also - there are more downspouts than you can see in the picture. After getting flooded in our current house, water is something I'm pretty picky about. Drainage is great - there are at least four...I'll check when I'm there Monday.

The inspector I've hired has done a couple of houses out there that are friends of ours, one on a house that sold recently that is four years old, and one that a friend of ours purchased brand new.

In the 4-yr-old house, no problems, other than some GFCI that didn't work anymore (owner never pushed them).

In the new house that my friend had, he found some insulation in the attic that wasn't leveled in a corner - hadn't been blown all the way in and evened out. It was over a bedroom, so that's a good thing to have found. He also found that the flashing on the back deck hadn't been installed AT ALL, so they pulled it off and fixed it for him, no charge, and then refunded him the money he had paid for the independent inspection fee because they felt so bad that something that serious had been found. It was apparently a bad day for one of the sub-contractors.

Really, though, the builder out in this new subdivision has done a great job. Many of the families in the first division (they are on the third and final phase) from 8 years ago are happily living in maintenance free homes, and the builder and his kids are just three houses down from the the house I'm buying. He's invested in the neighborhood, and wants everything to be right. He's making money, sure, but he seems to be doing it the right way - honestly.

Still bringing in my inspector on Monday though, can never be too careful with a purchase like this.

Thanks guys.

tsbrewers
(Member)
07/03/12 10:58 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

I have built a hundred decks just like that, I don't see any problems with it. If it were mine, i would probably have used 6x6's though. Looks like there are 4 stringers? If so, no problem with the stairs either. Nothing wrong with 3 stringers, just a little bouncy.

Brew

daveferg
(member)
07/04/12 10:39 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

When the builder is living in one of the homes----that's not a bad indicator. There are simply so many crooks out there it's better to be safe than sorry. Good luck with your inspection.
___

Brew---how can the deck be OK when you start off saying you'd use 6x6 (which was my first thought as well)? I also see other places where they cut back on materials (like no posts on railings and no structure midway under the stringers. Those things make me want to take a careful look at how it's attached to the house and how deep/large those footers are, both of which are critical to the deck's integrity over the next few years. And no--- I wouldn't be as concerned if the deck height were a couple feet above grade.

vernonator
(Member)
07/04/12 10:45 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

One thing to ask and get in writting is the warranty on your mechanicals. Some subs will want to have started them when the contractor installed them - and that was what Oct '11? So you are 9mos in already? Get in writting that all your warranites start on YOUR close date!!!! DAMHIK!!!!

GHR
(Member)
07/04/12 10:55 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

daveferg said:


Good luck with your inspection. Hope the deck checks out OK---or can be fixed.
___

GHR----Pictures lead to speculation? Yeah---like several of us noted its poor structure---of course I forgot. You're the guy who builds decks they way he wants to and then hangs max occupancy signs on them.



The fact that others do not see "poor structure" should indicate that the pictures are leading to speculation.

That you would have done things differently does not mean that what is present is not appropriate.

daveferg
(member)
07/04/12 11:23 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

GHR said:


daveferg said:


Good luck with your inspection. Hope the deck checks out OK---or can be fixed.
___

GHR----Pictures lead to speculation? Yeah---like several of us noted its poor structure---of course I forgot. You're the guy who builds decks they way he wants to and then hangs max occupancy signs on them.



The fact that others do not see "poor structure" should indicate that the pictures are leading to speculation.

That you would have done things differently does not mean that what is present is not appropriate.



First, I'm not the only one to have flagged the deck! No one is saying tear the deck down or other definitive recommendations. All anyone said is the deck bares a closer look due to some red flags some of us see.

Don't try and give me garbage about the use of pictures for gathering information. They are almost ALWAYS a good source for asking questions, let alone excellent for backing up findings when in the field. I'd also go on record saying that people on WN have gotten some of the better help with their problems WHEN they post pictures of the problem.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/04/12 11:42 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

GHR said:


daveferg said:


Good luck with your inspection. Hope the deck checks out OK---or can be fixed.
___

GHR----Pictures lead to speculation? Yeah---like several of us noted its poor structure---of course I forgot. You're the guy who builds decks they way he wants to and then hangs max occupancy signs on them.



The fact that others do not see "poor structure" should indicate that the pictures are leading to speculation.

That you would have done things differently does not mean that what is present is not appropriate.


The deck's beam is sandwiched to the posts which against code.
The guardrail is only supported by 1-3/8" x 1-3/8" balusters which is against code.
The stair guardrail does not have a graspable handrail which is against code.
Post sizes are 4x4 minimum for decks six feet or less above the ground and 4x6 for decks over six feet above the ground. These appear undersized and against code.
Decks more than 30 inches above grade must resist lateral forces (wind and earthquake) with diagonal cross bracing. The current bracing is woefully inadequate.
The top of the footings should extend 6" above existing grade not flush with grade as shown.
There does not appear to have any anchoring on post to pier.
The guardrail and stair construction is horrible.
Are footings of proper size?
Is the ledger board properly secured to the rim joist?
Has it been flashed?

This is a great example of an unknowing homeowner putting their trust into the General Contractor and local Building Inspector to only find out later how completely incompetent the GC and the BI were in building the home.

The GC severely under built this deck and placed the lives of the family in jeopardy of the sake of profit. I would clearly wonder what other shortcuts were made?

atgcpaul
(Member)
07/04/12 01:34 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Nice looking house. Good luck with the inspection. I would love to put a shop in a walkout basement-especially if there was a great view out the back.

tsbrewers
(Member)
07/04/12 02:51 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

daveferg said:

Brew---how can the deck be OK when you start off saying you'd use 6x6 (which was my first thought as well)? I also see other places where they cut back on materials (like no posts on railings and no structure midway under the stringers. Those things make me want to take a careful look at how it's attached to the house and how deep/large those footers are, both of which are critical to the deck's integrity over the next few years. And no--- I wouldn't be as concerned if the deck height were a couple feet above grade.





It can be ok since there are millions of decks out there virtually identical to that one with very few failures. Probably none directly related to using a 4x4. Saying I would have gone with a 6x6 mean just that, if I was building it myself I would have gone with 6x6's. That doesn't mean 4x4's aren't just fine.

It is a spec house, built to "builders grade" He has to compete with every other house out there for sale. if he stuck another $500 on the deck for 6x6 posts and a few 4x4's on the rail, would he recoup that? How about if he adds 10 outlets in the garage instead of just 1? Will he get that $1000 back? If he gets that one person who cares about these things maybe, but he is severely limiting his prospective buyers.

Most people are going to notice an extra 200 sq. ft. for the same price instead of a few minor things like beefier posts on the deck.

Kinda like looking at a 150hp car and saying it "should" have 300 hp. It will be fine with 150 but 300 would be nicer. If you want 300 you need to be ready to pay for it.

Jack in omaha
(Member)
07/04/12 03:14 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Have him check the windows to make sure all the seals are intact. Be sure to have him on roof and in the attic for water leaks and any wind or hail damage. I would want photos of the areas you have inspect. Also check the guttering and splope of the grade. Be ther with your agent and stay until he is finished he will point out minor items. Make sure he checks the insulation and any open access points and the basement for water problems and cracks.

I always had all homes inspected mostly by AmeriSpec. And we had a usual find that will baffle you on almost every new home especially ones that have sit for awhile. I had one which was a street of dreams house and the front Pella side vents had vapor moisture in them replaced by pella. The ac contactor had a ac vent going up to the attic that never was finished cut through into second floor so ac was pouring into the attic. Would have been a big problem. Now is the time to get these items fixed do not be wuss demmand fixes. My guess is you will find about $1,500 worth. I also look for fireplace cracks and installation mistakes. Radon inspection and remmidiation should be done and paid for by seller if found! Now is time to get theses items done! Looks like a fine new home congratulations

daveferg
(member)
07/04/12 03:30 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Brew----I saw problems based on my own deck which had drafted plans and a building permit----Woodenfish cited code violations for some of the same reasons I cited. I'm sorry, but I disagree that these omissions are at the discretion of the builder. Builder's grade is more likely to do with types of kitchen counter top, grades of appliances, or in the case of the deck, type of wood used (sure doesn't look like Ipe or redwood).

A builder cannot slap up any type of structure he wants. He's a licensed contractor and must meet code.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/04/12 03:48 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

tsbrewers said:


daveferg said:

Brew---how can the deck be OK when you start off saying you'd use 6x6 (which was my first thought as well)? I also see other places where they cut back on materials (like no posts on railings and no structure midway under the stringers. Those things make me want to take a careful look at how it's attached to the house and how deep/large those footers are, both of which are critical to the deck's integrity over the next few years. And no--- I wouldn't be as concerned if the deck height were a couple feet above grade.





It can be ok since there are millions of decks out there virtually identical to that one with very few failures. Probably none directly related to using a 4x4. Saying I would have gone with a 6x6 mean just that, if I was building it myself I would have gone with 6x6's. That doesn't mean 4x4's aren't just fine.

It is a spec house, built to "builders grade" He has to compete with every other house out there for sale. if he stuck another $500 on the deck for 6x6 posts and a few 4x4's on the rail, would he recoup that? How about if he adds 10 outlets in the garage instead of just 1? Will he get that $1000 back? If he gets that one person who cares about these things maybe, but he is severely limiting his prospective buyers.

Most people are going to notice an extra 200 sq. ft. for the same price instead of a few minor things like beefier posts on the deck.

Kinda like looking at a 150hp car and saying it "should" have 300 hp. It will be fine with 150 but 300 would be nicer. If you want 300 you need to be ready to pay for it.


I don't want to waste my time debating each of your statements one by one. I've seen the term "builders grade" referred to a low priced installed product that meets minimum FHA requirements, but to use that term to flat out cheat somebody by constructing a dangerous product like this deck that did not meet minimum construction guidelines or follow basic safety code for the sake of saving everyone upfront a few bucks is something totally different.

If the BI was competent this home should never be given an occupancy permit until the deck faults are corrected. Constructing a known shoddy product by a paid professional contractor that has lives dependent upon its sturdiness while falsely calling it "builders grade" would never satisfy me as a potential buyer or as a jurist.

tsbrewers
(Member)
07/04/12 05:03 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Ok, not sure if I missed it or not, but where does it not meet code? Do you honestly think the builder intentionally built it to collapse? There is absolutely no way anyone here on this message board can declare that deck unsafe. PERIOD. You can say that in your opinion it should be built different is fine, but you are making yourselves look like idiots declaring it unsafe from one picture 50' away.

As long as the deck is built correctly, IE attached to the house correctly, joist hangers used and used correctly, etc. Then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Sure it would be prettier with bigger posts, and the steps might be a little stronger if it had more support in the middle of the stringers, but the fact it doesn't have this, doesn't automatically make it unsafe. Unless there is a code specifying that the post have to be 6x6's, or you need extra support every 6' of stringer, then there isn't a problem.

Also all these little tips of "have him check xx, and xx and xx and xx and xx" is not going to go over real well. You hire the guy to do his job, not for you to tell him how to do it. If you know everything that he should look for, then why hire him? If you have to tell him what to look for, you need to find someone else.

How would any of you like if I walked in a told you how to do your jobs? hell, I use a computer, that automatically makes me an expert on computers, doesn't it? I drive a car, I should be able to tell my mechanic that I pay $125 an hour for, that he is an idiot and doesn't know what he is doing? I watch deadliest catch, I guess I should call them and tell them where to drop their pots?

fixtureman
(Member)
07/04/12 05:36 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Bravo tsbrewers I was thinking the same thing and as far as citing code where is this house located. I have been in many different states working on commercial jobs and the code differs from state to state. Just like in Canada has different codes as the US.

BacsiBob
(Honored Veteran)
07/04/12 05:58 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

I would like to point out that IF the home inspector has concerns about the deck, he/she would be wise to inform the client by reporting something like this:

"I have concerns regarding the structural integrity of the elevated deck on the back of the house. I would strongly recommend having it evaluated by a licensed professional who is well versed in residential deck construction and local building requirements, if any."

To get more specific than this, unless the inspector is a licensed professional, is to risk liability if the insector is wrong.

daveferg
(member)
07/04/12 06:12 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

BacsiBob said:


I would like to point out that IF the home inspector has concerns about the deck, he/she would be wise to inform the client by reporting something like this:

"I have concerns regarding the structural integrity of the elevated deck on the back of the house. I would strongly recommend having it evaluated by a licensed professional who is well versed in residential deck construction and local building requirements, if any."

To get more specific than this, unless the inspector is a licensed professional, is to risk liability if the inspector is wrong.



Couldn't have said it better myself. If the inspector knows the local codes and can cite chapter and verse, so much the better.
___

Brew----I think Woodenfish did a great job of citing code violations. Sure, there can be variations within localities, but even if the locality has no codes regarding high decks, that doesn't make this a good structure. Every year there are second story decks collapsing. It simply doesn't pay to build cheap and there is more than one indication that deck needs further examination.

GHR
(Member)
07/04/12 06:51 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Woodenfish said:


GHR said:


daveferg said:


Good luck with your inspection. Hope the deck checks out OK---or can be fixed.
___

GHR----Pictures lead to speculation? Yeah---like several of us noted its poor structure---of course I forgot. You're the guy who builds decks they way he wants to and then hangs max occupancy signs on them.



The fact that others do not see "poor structure" should indicate that the pictures are leading to speculation.

That you would have done things differently does not mean that what is present is not appropriate.


The deck's beam is sandwiched to the posts which against code.
The guardrail is only supported by 1-3/8" x 1-3/8" balusters which is against code.
The stair guardrail does not have a graspable handrail which is against code.
Post sizes are 4x4 minimum for decks six feet or less above the ground and 4x6 for decks over six feet above the ground. These appear undersized and against code.
Decks more than 30 inches above grade must resist lateral forces (wind and earthquake) with diagonal cross bracing. The current bracing is woefully inadequate.
The top of the footings should extend 6" above existing grade not flush with grade as shown.
There does not appear to have any anchoring on post to pier.
The guardrail and stair construction is horrible.
Are footings of proper size?
Is the ledger board properly secured to the rim joist?
Has it been flashed?

This is a great example of an unknowing homeowner putting their trust into the General Contractor and local Building Inspector to only find out later how completely incompetent the GC and the BI were in building the home.

The GC severely under built this deck and placed the lives of the family in jeopardy of the sake of profit. I would clearly wonder what other shortcuts were made?


I don't believe that any of the statements you make are correct.

Building codes allow either following prescriptive codes or performing engineering. Perhaps you could show your engineering math.

---

I just have to ask: Are you a licensed engineer?

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/04/12 08:42 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

fixtureman said:


Bravo tsbrewers I was thinking the same thing and as far as citing code where is this house located. I have been in many different states working on commercial jobs and the code differs from state to state. Just like in Canada has different codes as the US.


The International Residential Code (IRC) code has been summarized in the DCA 6 Prescriptive Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide, a guide that I linked to back on page 2 of this thread. The DCA 6 is the Gold Standard, The Bible, the written authority in Residential Wood Deck Construction. This guide has been widely adopted by most cities, States and nations worldwide in setting building code standards. Because of this, our building codes are fairly consistent from city to city and State to State.

The building inspector’s job is to interpret and enforce the rules as they are stated in the IRC and local code variants.

In other words, inspectors are not allowed to make up their own rules. Nor are there provisions for contractors deciding "builders grade" code. Because an inspector fails to inform a contractor to correct an improper design is not IMO, an endorsement of continued poor building technique.

I can't believe I have to defend my position with professional contractors?

How could it be possible NONE of you have ever heard of DCA 6?

If you guys are looking for work, I know a contractor in Cedar Falls, IA. I'm sure you all get along great!

daveferg
(member)
07/04/12 09:05 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Let me add a couple other points. Codes are MINIMUMS! They're there because of either determination by engineers or from past safety experience. And just because a locale may not have the exact same code or doesn't enforce it isn't a free ticket to ignore it.

I've read a number of accounts of deck collapses and while a new deck can fail, it's frequently ones that have been up a few years, where joining was not done properly or weights shifting as people move on and off the deck have weakened a vulnerable part of the structure. Add to this that unlike house framing---deck structures are constantly exposed to weather---therefore likely to show weaknesses in design or construction.

whitedogone
(Member)
07/04/12 10:13 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Do you have an inspection process in the municipality where the house was built? If so do an FOIA and get the inspectors notes/findings. Also, was the house built to the 2006 or the 2009 energy code?

whitedogone
(Member)
07/04/12 10:25 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

FYI,

Codes have changed a lot in the building of safe/ long lasting decks. TSbrewers might want to take a look. I Look at decks with a VERY critcal eye.... Especially when they are up in the air.

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

K. L, McReynolds
(Stairway Custodian)
07/04/12 11:36 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Quote:


The International Residential Code (IRC) code has been summarized in the DCA 6 Prescriptive Residential Wood Deck Construction Guide, a guide that I linked to back on page 2 of this thread. The DCA 6 is the Gold Standard, The Bible, the written authority in Residential Wood Deck Construction. This guide has been widely adopted by most cities, States and nations worldwide in setting building code standards. Because of this, our building codes are fairly consistent from city to city and State to State.




I agree----but.


The IRC is exactly what daveferg said---the minimum standard.

I never built a two story high deck, but I built several less than 6' high and NEVER built any of them to ISC standards. EVERY one was upgraded.

And, if you think codes are consistent, come to Kansas City---every little township has their additions. And every inspection office has inspectors who do their job differently.

I've seen well educated inspectors and a couple who were lucky to be able to distinguish the difference between a kitchen and a basement.

GHR
(Member)
07/05/12 08:16 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Woodenfish said:


I can't believe I have to defend my position with professional contractors?


The problem with your posistion is you state the deck is unsafe. The correct position is that the deck may not meet the prescriptive code.

---

The reason for building codes is that builing inspecotrs were making up requirements as they went. Not to improve safety but to punish builders.

The deck is standing. No one has been injured. No one is refusing to use the deck. But there are people who continue to say the deck is not safe.

---

The code is not a minimim. The code simply is a prescription that the code officials agree does not require engineering.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/05/12 08:24 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Your right! How could I possibly argue with someone with logic like yours?

Have a nice day!

blindrid
(Member)
07/05/12 08:55 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

GHR said:



Post sizes are 4x4 minimum for decks six feet or less above the ground and 4x6 for decks over six feet above the ground. These appear undersized and against code.




Not sure about this one as there are a lot of new decks around here over 6' that utilize 4x4's around here it is based on the design and loading which would cause a 4x4 or 6x6, etc. That and considering how extremely picky the inspectors are, I would think they are built within code.

GHR
(Member)
07/05/12 09:14 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

blindrid said:


GHR said:



Post sizes are 4x4 minimum for decks six feet or less above the ground and 4x6 for decks over six feet above the ground. These appear undersized and against code.




Not sure about this one as there are a lot of new decks around here over 6' that utilize 4x4's around here it is based on the design and loading which would cause a 4x4 or 6x6, etc. That and considering how extremely picky the inspectors are, I would think they are built within code.


You have messed up the attribution for the quote. The words belong to someone else.

GHR
(Member)
07/05/12 09:36 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

whitedogone said:


FYI,

Codes have changed a lot in the building of safe/ long lasting decks. TSbrewers might want to take a look. I Look at decks with a VERY critcal eye.... Especially when they are up in the air.

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf



The problem with the reference you post is that it is not code.

The reference relies on some simple engineering and that is enough that any building official can reject any arguments based on the reference.

In addition, the reference adds some prescriptions of its own.

Feel free to use the reference but do not expect either prescriptive code compliance or good engineering.

blindrid
(Member)
07/05/12 11:09 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Let's do it this way - sorry:


"Post sizes are 4x4 minimum for decks six feet or less above the ground and 4x6 for decks over six feet above the ground. These appear undersized and against code."


Not sure about this one as there are a lot of new decks around here over 6' that utilize 4x4's around here it is based on the design and loading which would cause a 4x4 or 6x6, etc. That and considering how extremely picky the inspectors are, I would think they are built within code.

Some of the other "codes" don't seem correct either.

whitedogone
(Member)
07/05/12 11:21 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

GHR said:


whitedogone said:


FYI,

Codes have changed a lot in the building of safe/ long lasting decks. TSbrewers might want to take a look. I Look at decks with a VERY critcal eye.... Especially when they are up in the air.

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf



The reference relies on some simple engineering and that is enough that any building official can reject any arguments based on the reference.

In addition, the reference adds some prescriptions of its own.

Feel free to use the reference but do not expect either prescriptive code compliance or good engineering.



You are correct.....sort of. Although it's not real of the code, it can certainly be referenced and used reference document. Refer to section R 104.11

DaveD
(Member)
07/06/12 09:53 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

I'm with Woodenfish on this one. No way would I put 15 people on that deck for a party. I'm not sure if the stairs will fail first or the deck itself. I am willing to bet that the deck was never inspected by the building inspector.

Do a search for deck failures and get educated. Lots of pictures and articles out there.Pay attention to the latest deck codes for railing lateral movement and attaching decks to houses. Under NO circumstances ever think about putting a hot tub on that deck.

As far as the house goes....really look at the ceiling surfaces and wall surfaces for inconsistent paint. I had a new Centex house ('C' grade quality) and was able to see the taped ceiing seams telegraph through the final finish. It wasn't a taping problem. it was a cut corners when spraying the ceiling problem. they redid the whole ceiling in the 2 story greatroom/hallway/foyer.

Next was their touch up the paint on the wall technique. If I looked at the walls from various angles you could see where they hit major walls with a paint roller in about a dozen spots per wall. Really splotchy job. result was they totally repainted several major walls.

Remember, Your house passed code, code is minmum. You are now living in a house that has a grade of D-. Its a fact of life. My house is no different.

Also no matter what your builder says or puts in writing look into if your state has a 10 year warranty on structural defects. that piece of knowledge can come in handy if the crap hits the fan 6 years later.

blindrid
(Member)
07/06/12 10:10 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

DaveD said:

Under NO circumstances ever think about putting a hot tub on that deck.

Remember, Your house passed code, code is minmum. You are now living in a house that has a grade of D-. Its a fact of life. My house is no different.




Not sure why the hot tub comment as it is common knowledge that decks designed for hot tubs need additional supports - the deck is not designed for a hot tub so what's the beef with the contractor building it for normal use. I have four decks with one designed for the weight of a hot tub, three aren't - so what's the problem?

Regarding the comment of a grade of D- baffles me also. Sounds like someone has a complaint with a home builder and is venting. Not sure how one could determine with the information included that it is a D-, or even a B+. A few pic's and we automatically make assumptions with little fact.

The OP came in here for opinions on what to look for and some are probably scaring him with all of the assumptions.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/06/12 11:01 AM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

DaveD said:


I'm with Woodenfish on this one. No way would I put 15 people on that deck for a party. I'm not sure if the stairs will fail first or the deck itself. I am willing to bet that the deck was never inspected by the building inspector.



I think the stairs have an occupancy limit of 1 or 2 people max. Realistically, nobody should enter them. The stairs are missing the code requirement of four posts just to hold it up and the guardrail is missing all of its needed posts. I have no idea what this deck builder was thinking?

I can't stand such a continuous run of stairs. That staircase would be much safer with a landing. I couldn't imagine the injuries someone will face if they slip on these stairs? The guardrail at any point on either the deck or stairs is assembled in such a weak manner it could so easily breakaway with little force. When this happens the occupant(s) could easily plunge to their death.

To read in this thread the utter ignorance of reading and following the Prescriptive Wood Deck Construction Guide, the false determination of proper construction methods, the self-implied building codes and most importantly the total ignorance in protecting the lives of people we serve, should be an eye-opener to anyone possibly facing a similar situation. Learn what is proper first. Build it right, build it safe or leave it to someone who knows exactly what they are doing.

If the builder wanted to be cheap he should of just built a false balcony at the door. The builder had a choice to either sell a properly built deck later before occupancy as an upgrade or to allow the buyer to seek another contractor out. Now it is too late. This deck is a feature of the home. The owners deserve a safe structure that they and their guests can enjoy as much as any other feature that the home includes. There is no middle ground in deck construction safety. Especially so on this structure where the platform is 10 feet above grade. This entire deck structure should be condemned.

MNice
(Member)
07/06/12 12:12 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

From the pictures provided, there is no way in heck to determine weather the deck is safe or not, period..

whitedogone
(Member)
07/06/12 12:18 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

MNice said:


From the pictures provided, there is no way in hell to determine weather the deck is safe or not, period..



Sure it is. Just how unsafe is another matter.

daveferg
(member)
07/06/12 12:26 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

MNice said:


From the pictures provided, there is no way in heck to determine weather the deck is safe or not, period..



Bull! I've worked in the insurance industry for decades and documentation with pictures is standard practice. If you can't see there are now railing posts and that the structure is entirely on three 4x4s---- No you couldn't officially condemn a structure with pictures, you sure could see what needed further investigation.

I'd second Woodenfish's earlier comment that some of the comments on this thread, supposedly coming from contractors, is pretty scary.

MNice
(Member)
07/06/12 12:46 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Here are some code sections from the 2006 IRC. (thats all I have electonic access to) Look at the portions that are dashed out, it the only way I can highlight the text for some reason. I still stand behind my statment about the pictures, just no way to tell if its to code or not.

MINIMUM UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED LIVE LOADS
(in pounds per square foot)
USE LIVE LOAD
Attics with limited storageb, g, h 20
Attics without storageb 10
---------------Decks 40 -------------------
Exterior balconies 60
Fire escapes 40
----------------Guardrails and handrails 200 d---------------
Guardrails in–fill componentsf 50i
Passenger vehicle garagesa 50a
Rooms other than sleeping rooms 40
Sleeping rooms 30
Stairs 40c
For SI: 1 pound per square foot = 0.0479 kPa, 1 square inch = 645 mm2,
1 pound = 4.45 N.
a. Elevated garage floors shall be capable of supporting a 2,000-pound load
applied over a 20-square-inch area.
b. Attics without storage are those where the maximum clear height between
joist and rafter is less than 42 inches, or where there are not two or more adjacent
trusses with the same web configuration capable of containing a rectangle
42 inches high by 2 feet wide, or greater, located within the plane of the
truss. For attics without storage, this live load need not be assumed to act
concurrently with any other live load requirements.
c. Individual stair treads shall be designed for the uniformly distributed live
load or a 300-pound concentrated load acting over an area of 4 square inches,
whichever produces the greater stresses.
----------d. A single concentrated load applied in any direction at any point along the top.----------------
Stairs.

R311.5.4 Landings for stairways. There shall be a floor or
landing at the top and bottom of each stairway.
Exception:Afloor or landing is not required at the top of
an interior flight of stairs, including stairs in an enclosed
garage, provided a door does not swing over the stairs.
----------------A flight of stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than
12 feet (3658 mm) between floor levels or landings.------------------
The width of each landing shall not be less than the width
of the stairway served. Every landing shall have a minimum
dimension of 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction
of travel.
Columns

R407.1 Wood column protection. Wood columns shall be
protected against decay as set forth in Section R319.
R407.2 Steel column protection. All surfaces (inside and outside)
of steel columns shall be given a shop coat of
rust-inhibitive paint, except for corrosion-resistant steel and
steel treated with coatings to provide corrosion resistance.
R407.3 Structural requirements. The columns shall be
restrained to prevent lateral displacement at the bottom end.
-----------Wood columns shall not be less in nominal size than 4 inches by
4 inches (102 mm by 102 mm) ------------and steel columns shall not be
less than 3-inch-diameter (76 mm) standard pipe or approved
equivalent.

blindrid
(Member)
07/06/12 01:36 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Dave: you are condemning the structure as it's on three posts. Guessing, the deck is only 10'-12' wide and not very deep. It would appear to me that there are sufficient supports to handle the load.

Those that mention you couldn't have 15 people on deck: I would suggest residential decks aren't designed like a Holiday Inn.

The last deck I built used 4 - 6x6's on a 30' wide deck. That was even bumping the loads to overbuild the deck. I'm guessing the load calcs on the deck would prove just fine.

Some people in here want landing on the stairs - that would be overkill as it would be no different than going down a straight run of basement stairs......

Whether anyone likes the deck or would build it differently makes no difference to the OP.

Woodenfish
(Member)
07/06/12 03:12 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Are you unable to use the zoom feature on your pc to view the pictures with greater detail?

Do you agree that the 2006 IRC lacks prescriptive methods for deck construction for code compliancy and is outdated?

Do you agree that this decks sandwiched beam, post bracing and lack of 4x4 guardrail posts are standard building practices acceptable to be code compliant?

Do you agree that a passed inspection does not clear the contractor of liability?

MNice
(Member)
07/06/12 03:31 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Woodenfish said:


Are you unable to use the zoom feature on your pc to view the pictures with greater detail? nope, just never thought of that..
Do you agree that the 2006 IRC lacks prescriptive methods for deck construction for code compliancy and is outdated? yep... irc is not a prescrptive code

Do you agree that this decks sandwiched beam, post bracing and lack of 4x4 guardrail posts are standard building practices acceptable to be code compliant? sandwiched beam yes, no 4x4 guard post,no

Do you agree that a passed inspection does not clear the contractor of liability? yes.



Keep in mind, code are minimum standards, and all we as inspectors can enforce.

DaveD
(Member)
07/06/12 04:16 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

http://www.hankeyandbrown.com/deckinspection

http://www.atlantahomeimprovement.com/blog/2012/04/13/what-causes-decks-to-collapse/

http://inspectapedia.com/structure/Deck_Collapse.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRP2g3I8Q98

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/deck-collapse-sends-7-hospital/nPFzC/

http://www.startribune.com/local/yourvoices/150561435.html

http://www.structuretech1.com/tag/deck-inspections/

One big problem with a deck failure is it is going to probably be a catastrophic failure with no warning. Everything will be fine up to that fateful moment in time.

The other thing you have to worry about is with today's treated lumber you have to be darn sure you use the right fasteners. Typically hot dipped galvanized or even stainless steel. In some instances you have to use something like Grace Ice and Water Shield to isolate any metal brackets from the treated wood.

As far as fastening the railing posts to the deck, Simpson makes steel brackets specifically for that purpose. Its no longer acceptable to merely nail the posts to the framing members, be it inside or outside of the framing members.

I'd like to see some pictures of the OPs deck and how it is fastened to the house and how the floor joists or the deck are fastened to the ledger. Same for the railing posts.

Finally, I would guess that the OPs house is a typical run of the mill tract home for his area of the country. Not good, not bad, just average. Just like 90% of the other builder's teact homes throughout the country. Mine included.

But there is no way I would ever let a friend or relative use a deck like the one on that house. As a minimum it needs a heck of a lot more bracing and that stairway is the pits. How would you like your 6 year old to start down those stairs by themselves. You are an idiot if would let that happen.

Or picture 10 or so people on that stairway getting ready to take a picture.

From what I can tell from the pictures the builder did the cheapest job possible and it makes me really concerned for what I can't see in the 50 pictures that were not taken.

That deck is going to have a tendency to also rack parallel to the house. The fastening of the deck boards themselves typically are not sufficient to prevent catastrophic racking.

I'm done with this subject. I know what I would do if the OP was a neighbor, friend, coworker or relative of even a friend of a friend and I saw that deck. I'd be in his face with how I feel about this subject and his deck in particular.

I'm sure a couple thousand dollars would fix whatever is wrong, and that crappy long staircase, and everyone could sleep well at night.

Its still a D- grade on the house (meets minimum code requirements) and a big fat F on the deck and stairs.I know that my Centex Crosland house was designed, engineered, and constructed with minimum code requirements in mind. I have had the pleasure to be in houses that far exceeded the minimum standard. But then again who is willing to pay twice the price for something they can't see?

What was your school's (grade through high school) meet minimum requirements to pass a grade. A? B? C? D? anything better than a F?

daveferg
(member)
07/06/12 05:16 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

blindrid said:


Dave: you are condemning the structure as it's on three posts. Guessing, the deck is only 10'-12' wide and not very deep. It would appear to me that there are sufficient supports to handle the load.

Those that mention you couldn't have 15 people on deck: I would suggest residential decks aren't designed like a Holiday Inn.

The last deck I built used 4 - 6x6's on a 30' wide deck. That was even bumping the loads to overbuild the deck. I'm guessing the load calcs on the deck would prove just fine.

Some people in here want landing on the stairs - that would be overkill as it would be no different than going down a straight run of basement stairs......

Whether anyone likes the deck or would build it differently makes no difference to the OP.



I think if at a party, the deck collapsed, it would mean a he77 of a lot to the OP. The kids in the video that followed were just lucky. People die or are seriously injured every year in deck collapses.

Also, I see NO difference between building a deck for a Holiday Inn and my home, at least as far as a possible high or kinetic load. If the deck starts to twist, 4x4s can also twist at that height. IMO, that deck was built with structure for an on-grade or slightly above---not as a second story deck.

On the stairs, a landing would be good, but I'd settle for some mid-point structure to stiffen the stairs. Heck, I've got more structure under the stairs in my house that that deck does.

blindrid
(Member)
07/06/12 05:16 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Excellent point. Can you imagine what would happen if an inspector did otherwise?

Enough of preaching to the choir as to the way we would build this particular deck instead of just trying to help the OP out. I'm done with this pi**ing match.

The way I figure regardless what happens the builder liability is there in today's environment.

daveferg
(member)
07/06/12 05:24 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

blindrid said:


Excellent point. Can you imagine what would happen if an inspector did otherwise?

Enough of preaching to the choir as to the way we would build this particular deck instead of just trying to help the OP out. I'm done with this pi**ing match.

The way I figure regardless what happens the builder liability is there in today's environment.



That's fine if the builder is still in business. And I do hope the OP takes this discussion in the spirit which it's offered---that all any of us on the concern side are saying is it needs a complete inspection by someone who knows structural engineering.

GHR
(Member)
07/06/12 06:21 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

DaveD said:

One big problem with a deck failure is it is going to probably be a catastrophic failure with no warning. Everything will be fine up to that fateful moment in time.



I think the big problem is that on the internet a few unrelated failures are represented as a common problem that is easily diagnosed on the internet.

---

A number of peole have made the comment that 3 4x4 posts are not sufficient to support the edge of the deck.

The math is real simple. You can look up the details in the National Design Standard for Wood Construction.

All you need to do is ask for the deck and post measurements. And plug them in. But no one has even asked for the measurements.

Thgat is why I don't do engineering on the internet. Too many people who want to be right without doing the work.



daveferg
(member)
07/06/12 06:31 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

GHR said:


DaveD said:

One big problem with a deck failure is it is going to probably be a catastrophic failure with no warning. Everything will be fine up to that fateful moment in time.



I think the big problem is that on the internet a few unrelated failures are represented as a common problem that is easily diagnosed on the internet.



Actually, that's the first one I saw on the internet. The rest have been on the local TV news or in the papers. Holmes also had one where some older women were enjoying a friend's deck and it collapsed----killing one women and seriously injuring two others. A bit more than internet or urban legends.

One time I found one at a winery where I was making a business call. The staircase swayed with each step and the deck vibrated as you walked across it. Since you may not be aware of it, wineries out here are famous for big group get togethers.

Joel H.
(Member)
07/06/12 06:38 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

blindrid said:



The way I figure regardless what happens the builder liability is there in today's environment.



I've read this thread with a lot of interest. Lots of good points on both sides; however, the above quote is scary. So what if the builder has liability? If the buyer loses his wife or child, what good is "builder liability"?

Joel

BandMan
(Member)
07/07/12 04:24 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Hey all that are still following this thread (whew...):

Started a new post with a bunch of better, close up pics. Should help answer questions. Go here:
Deck questions with more pics

Estrogen Hostage
(^^^^^TRULY^^^^^, ......well.....MOSTLY!!....)
07/07/12 08:11 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

I say who cares about the deck. Fixing it will cost a few hundred bucks tops.

I would assume that a home inspector will miss anything important on a new home. The wiring and plumbing were all inspected by the city inspector and will be to code. The problems that you would have are going to be invisible, like a nail that penetrated a water pipe and might start leaking someday. No home inspector will catch that.

whitedogone
(Member)
07/07/12 08:24 PM
Re: Home Inspection on New Home

Did ya find out if it was built to the 06 or 09 energy code?


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