jteneyck
Member
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 3205
Loc: Western NY
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Hi Dave,
Water accummulating in the gutter at the corner of the porch was how I really first noticed the problem. I blow out the gutters at least every Spring and a couple of times in the Fall. Several few years ago I started seeing water lay in that corner and it's gotten progressively worse since, to the point that I started to look into the underlying reason why. The rest you know.
Today I started wondering what the cost would be to remove the whole porch and rebuild it. Big job, but maybe no more expensive than the helical piers, especially if it turns out they have to use 3 of them. Anyway, when I talk with the structural engineer I'm going to discuss that option with him as well. I would guess that after the old porch and foundation is removed, they would dig somewhat deeper and then pour a much wider footer, then build it back up. Anyway, another option to look into.
John
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Mr_Mike
Rocketeer
Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 20372
Loc: So Cal, USA
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Two things:
1) What would be the cost to tear out, saving the bricks, and rebuild? Under $6k? Why not do that?
2) I read the article on helical piers and I get how you drill them down. How to you jack up the porch foundation, install the metal supports and attach them to the piers? Did I miss that in the article?
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Rocket Science is more fun when you actually have rockets.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." -- Patrick Henry
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daveferg
member
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 39809
Loc: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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John---then I guess what I'm saying is the gutter water is what softened up the soil under the porch---that might give you more of an idea on whether it can be jacked or if you need to start from scratch. I'm just thinking starting over couldn't be any more of a mess than installing piers and hoping the jacking didn't crack the concrete.
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Dave
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Woodenfish
Member
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 2832
Loc: Chi-raq
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John, In case you decide against the helical piers in favor of a total rebuild your new footing will require multiple foundation piers deep enough to reach undisturbed soil that is capable of building a new footing upon. I don't think a total rebuild will save you money especially once you figure in the masonry work and other associated brick problems. Of course though, having that estimate in mind will soothe your final choice.
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Any free advice given is worth price paid.
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jteneyck
Member
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 3205
Loc: Western NY
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daveferg said:
John---then I guess what I'm saying is the gutter water is what softened up the soil under the porch---that might give you more of an idea on whether it can be jacked or if you need to start from scratch. I'm just thinking starting over couldn't be any more of a mess than installing piers and hoping the jacking didn't crack the concrete.
No, I don't think so Dave. When the gutters first were installed they captured all the roof water and carried it to the downspout. It was only after the foundation sank down some, and the gutter followed it, that it started to overflow at the front corner, and then only during an extremely heavy downpour. Normally, the gutter still carries the water to the downspout; it's just that it doesn't completely drain.
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jteneyck
Member
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 3205
Loc: Western NY
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Woodenfish said:
John, In case you decide against the helical piers in favor of a total rebuild your new footing will require multiple foundation piers deep enough to reach undisturbed soil that is capable of building a new footing upon. I don't think a total rebuild will save you money especially once you figure in the masonry work and other associated brick problems. Of course though, having that estimate in mind will soothe your final choice.
Thanks for the input Woodenfish. You sure seem to know your stuff about foundations. That's the great thing about WoodNet; there's almost always several folks who have knowledge and experience about whatever topic you post. Your insight will be helpful when I talk with the structural engineer about repair or replace. I was already betting repair would be cheaper. If piers have to be sunk to support a new footer, then I'd bet that will make the repair option look pretty cheap. Thanks.
John
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jteneyck
Member
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 3205
Loc: Western NY
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Mr_Mike said:
Two things:
1) What would be the cost to tear out, saving the bricks, and rebuild? Under $6k? Why not do that?
2) I read the article on helical piers and I get how you drill them down. How to you jack up the porch foundation, install the metal supports and attach them to the piers? Did I miss that in the article?
Mike, you sorta missed that part. Here it is:
"How Helical Piers Work
First, soil is removed from the area where the helical pier will be installed. Helical pier sections are mechanically "screwed", or advanced, into the soil.
Once proper depths and capacities are achieved, heavy duty steel foundation brackets are positioned below and against the foundation footing.
The weight of the home is then transferred through the helical piers to deep, competent soils. Lifting the home back towards its original position is attempted. Then, the soil around the foundation is carefully replaced."
It still doesn't say exactly how the foundation is lifted, but it must either be a screw or hydraulic mechanism. Maybe Woodenfish has some more insight. I forgot to ask the guy yesterday.
John
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Woodenfish
Member
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 2832
Loc: Chi-raq
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The foundation is lifted hydraulically by bottle-jacks. After achieving the lift the weight is set on threaded rods in the steel footing underpinning brackets. The lift brackets permanently transfer the weight to the helical pier so the contractors hydraulic jacks can be removed.
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Any free advice given is worth price paid.
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Mr_Mike
Rocketeer
Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 20372
Loc: So Cal, USA
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Woodenfish said:
The foundation is lifted hydraulically by bottle-jacks. After achieving the lift the weight is set on threaded rods in the steel footing underpinning brackets. The lift brackets permanently transfer the weight to the helical pier so the contractors hydraulic jacks can be removed.
Sounds good to me. The article didn't say.
I presume all this underground steel is protected from corrosion?
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Rocket Science is more fun when you actually have rockets.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." -- Patrick Henry
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Woodenfish
Member
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 2832
Loc: Chi-raq
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The underground pier parts go through a hot-dipped galvanization process to protect themselves long term against corrosion plus resistance to abrasion during installation. Helical pier or resistance pier installation demo videos can both be found on YouTube for repairing sinking foundations.
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Any free advice given is worth price paid.
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