DustyDan
Member
Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2051
Loc: Los Angeles
|
|
Thanks for the replies.
I had not thought about the 1/4 overlayment. The tiles are in good shape, maybe they just didn't really want the job.
He has gone to a local flooring company and the carpet goes in tomorrow.
|
daveferg
member
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 39664
Loc: Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
I can certainly understand the first company's position---to an extent. Depending on how brittle the tile is, installing or removing old tack strips "can" break the tile---again depending on if it's brittle.
But, it doesn't sound like that outfit was aware of ways to avoid the problems (like by using existing tack strips). Regardless---it's a very small exposure, compared to removing the tile.
Rick C.----I respect your knowledge on a number of subjects, but I think there were a lot more mfgs. using asbestos in flooring than those just making 9"x9" tiles.
--------------------
Dave
|
blindrid
Member
Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 4734
Loc: Castle Rock CO
|
|
Wild Turkey said:
Blame lawyers and bureaucrats 
I'd get someone else to do it, and probably buy the carpet elsewhere too.
We had the Lowe's contractor lay some carpet in our front room. Looked great -- for about 90 days, then seams started to look bad. 
Yep, got what we paid for
Here's a start on the hysteria from the EPA website:
"Most Common Sources of Asbestos Exposure:
Workplace exposure to people that work in industries that mine, make or use asbestos products and those living near these industries, including:
the construction industry (particularly building demolition and renovation activities),
the manufacture of asbestos products (such as textiles, friction products, insulation, and other building materials), and
during automotive brake and clutch repair work
Deteriorating, damaged, or disturbed asbestos-containing products such as insulation, fireproofing, acoustical materials, and floor tiles."
Obviously, the method used for remediation is encapsulation of the floor tile. With all of the goofy rules, I'm sure the HD sub was attempting to be legit but probably ill-advised.
I have one contractor here that staes the local rules is if you do any remodel in a house built before 1977, you pretty much need a test as the fines are huge if the inspector thinks asbestos.
That's how crazy it is around here.
|
Rick Christopherson
Member
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2994
|
|
daveferg said:
Rick C.----I respect your knowledge on a number of subjects, but I think there were a lot more mfgs. using asbestos in flooring than those just making 9"x9" tiles.
Dave, I was an Industrial Hygiene technician and a certified AHERA (Asbestos Hazard Emergency Response Act) building inspector. That meant that I was legally certified to perform asbestos inspections in public schools and government buildings. It was a mandatory Federal EPA requirement, and every school and government building required complete inspection only by AHERA certified inspectors. Anyone could legally inspect a private school or industry, but you could not walk into a public school without an AHERA certification.
Yes, as an AHERA building inspector, I was always required to test all tiles, including the 12x12, but we knew that they would always come back negative. The adhesive used is another matter, and that also had to be tested. So even when the 12x12's were negative, the adhesive was typically found to be positive.
When you do this long enough, you know what materials are suspect and what are not. You still have to test everything in order to maintain certification, but you generally know in advance what the results will be, and are just confirming them with analysis.
I had dozens of required certifications for that position, but the AHERA Building Inspector was the most rigorous of them all. It was established to protect children in public schools, so obviously it was not fly-by-night.
--------------------
My website is no longer under AT&T. I have moved my website to http://www.waterfront-woods.com
Also, the Multi-position Guide Stop is at http://www.dominoguide.com
|
daveferg
member
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 39664
Loc: Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
Rick--that's very interesting. I've been to a load of seminars on asbestos and that's the first I ever heard of determining if the product was an ACM based on it's size. Learn something every day!!
Blindrid---I don't think it's at all fair to call this hysteria. The quote you cited is ALL very true, and has been so dating back to the beginning of the 20th century. It was only through the creation of the EPA and OSHA that asbestos hazards would have ever come to the public's attention.
I would grant you when standards for asbestos remediation first came out, there was a lot of overkill----but common sense and further knowledge made containment more practical.
--------------------
Dave
|
Rick Christopherson
Member
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2994
|
|
daveferg said:
Rick--that's very interesting. I've been to a load of seminars on asbestos and that's the first I ever heard of determining if the product was an ACM based on it's size. Learn something every day!!
Of course you would never hear that in a seminar, nor would I have heard it during an AHERA class. Even though it was common knowledge, you cannot act on it as common knowledge, nor present it in a seminar either.
After doing enough of this, you not only have a pretty good idea what is suspect-ACM and what is not, but can even make reasonable predictions on the percent ACM content for suspected ACM materials.
When we cut into the outer sheath of an insulated pipe, when it was white fibrous it was likely ACM and looked really scary. However, when it was grey corrugated paper and didn't look very scary, well that is when we grabbed our respirators, because it was almost guaranteed to be 90-99% ACM of the worst type.
=========================
Here is a fun story for you...just for the heck of it. Me and my partner (a cute little thing that I always wanted to get her into a dark room) were surveying an abandoned chiller plant. It was in a nasty part of town and everything was jet-black inside, so we were always on-edge just being in there for sampling. This building was so bad that even our 5-cell MagLites could only light up what they were pointed at, and there was zero reflected light to light up the rest of a room.
We couldn't see what we were doing, but in the very first room, I came across this white fibrous clump on the floor. So I sampled it and logged it for testing (not all samples are tested, but they are always taken). It looked like pipe insulation, even though I could not find any overhead pipes where it may have fallen from. Nevertheless, it was considered suspected-ACM insulation and tested.
Two days later I got a nasty message from our microscopy lab accusing me of playing a bad joke on them. They ran the sample through several times for the white fibrous material, but they really got pissed off when they discovered that under the white fibrous clump was the skeletal remains of a bat.
Yup, I had sampled a dead bat lying on the floor of this pitch-black room. 
--------------------
My website is no longer under AT&T. I have moved my website to http://www.waterfront-woods.com
Also, the Multi-position Guide Stop is at http://www.dominoguide.com
|
daveferg
member
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 39664
Loc: Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
--------------------
Dave
|
Barry
Member
Registered: 02/07/01
Posts: 6895
Loc: New Rochelle, NY
|
|
You didn't tell us if the bat remains tested positive for ACM!!
--------------------
Itshardtoputspacesinbetweenyourwordswithouttheuseofyourthumbs
|
Rick Christopherson
Member
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 2994
|
|
No. Much to my embarrassment, the white fibrous clump was actually the decaying fur of the bat. When the microscopist dragged me into the lab to chew me out, she showed me the sample bag (with my signature on it of course) where a leg or arm skeleton was sticking out from under the clump. She was not amused.
When my anal retentive boss heard about it, I almost had to go to remedial sampling school.  He had no sense of humor either.
I wish I could remember how I wrote up the sample description in the final report. It had become a fairly big joke by that point, and the project manager DID have a good sense of humor. The description was something funny, but ONLY if you knew the sample was a bat. We wouldn't want the client to know we sample stupid stuff.
--------------------
My website is no longer under AT&T. I have moved my website to http://www.waterfront-woods.com
Also, the Multi-position Guide Stop is at http://www.dominoguide.com
|
daveferg
member
Registered: 02/19/02
Posts: 39664
Loc: Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
As to your boss having no sense of humor---must go with the territory----I've only met a few IH's who did have a sense of humor, let alone a personality-----present company excluded! '
Dead bats aren't the strangest thing I"ve ever seen sampled----had an OSHA IH who'd regularly sample pigeon poop at a maintenance garage.
--------------------
Dave
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Re: Asbestos in Floor Tiles (HD Rant
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
