MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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I'm about two weekends away from finishing my grandson's bookcase. My son has a phobia about golden oak and wants everything in his house to be very light wood, or cherry colored. I would like to finish this maple book case with clear finish, but still have the grain stand out. Is that possible?
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Sure is! If you don't want to alter the color noticeably just use Orange shellac and mix it yourself using a good quality DNA (Sunnyside or Kleanstrip green). Its easy to apply and will only slightly alter the color with 3 or fewer coats of a 1# cut. That will provide some protection and really pop the grain. I like to top coat with Poly-ox as its a waterborne hard use bar and floor finish and very easy to apply. I usually use a foam brush or spray.
BTW McFeeleys has $1 shipping.
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homo homini lupus
Edited by JR1 (05/13/12 12:36 PM)
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18895
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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It's a trade-off. The more amber color you add, the more the grain will be highlighted. On some scrap from your project, wipe on a light coat of boiled linseed oil, let it set for 15-20 minutes and then wipe it dry. See how you like it. When you clear coat it with an oil based varnish, it will look somewhat more amber.
It the above is too amber, apply a coat of Zinsser Sealcoat shellac. It's a less amber finish than BLO. Then apply your varnish clear coat.d
Finally, an oil based varnish will provide a bit of amber color particularly if you use a poly varnish.
Test them all an you will answer your own question.
Finally, finishing the upper compartment is going to be problematic if your project is already glued. There is little room to nicely brush on a finish. I would suggest you use a wipe-on finish for that area. In the future, think about finishing before you assemble the item. Then you could pre-finish before assembly when everything is accessible.
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Howie.........
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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The upper compartment is where the drawer goes, and the top and back are not yet attached, so I have some "playing around" room.
Thanks for the information. I do have scrap laying around and will try the orange shellac and linseed oil before I start the finish on the bookcase.
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18895
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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>>>> will try the orange shellac
"Orange" shellac will give you and amber color vitually the same color as BLO. The Zinsser Sealcoat is a blond shellac offering less amber (orange) than an orange shellac.
If you plan to clear coat your item with either a poly varnish or a waterborne finish you should use a dewaxed shellac. These two finishes have reduced adhesion to a wax containing shellac. The Zinsser Sealcoat is a 100% dewaxed shellac. It's the only pre-mixed dewaxed shellac. The other Zinsser shellac are NOT dewaxed.
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Howie.........
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Richard D.
Off his rocker
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6307
Loc: Los Angeles
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JR1 said:
Sure is! If you don't want to alter the color noticeably just use Orange shellac and mix it yourself using a good quality DNA (Sunnyside or Kleanstrip green). Its easy to apply and will only slightly alter the color with 3 or fewer coats of a 1# cut. That will provide some protection and really pop the grain. I like to top coat with Poly-ox as its a waterborne hard use bar and floor finish and very easy to apply. I usually use a foam brush or spray.
BTW McFeeleys has $1 shipping.
JR1, Could you posts a photo of a project you have finished with those products? What was the last piece you used it on? Would love to see an example of how it came out!
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RD
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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Thanks, Howie. I'll give that a try-out on my scrap. The grain is very nice for maple and I do want to make sure it is visible, within my son's requirements. Of course, what's he gonna do? His son has seen the book case in various stages of being built, and loves it. 
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Lumber Yard®
Member
Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9696
Loc: Behind a computer screen.
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One thing to remember is that an "aged" piece of maple won't look the same as a freshly finished piece. I'm all for doing some tests on scrap but realize that the color isn't going to be the same in 6 months, as the maple will darken with time. Personally I'm a fan of BLO for enhancing the grain in maple and than top-coating with your finish of choice.
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"I don't lie, but I sometime I make up figures..." Puffin 1-1-2013 aka SML
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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The above is a good point. That's one reason that I recommend top coating with Poly-ox it has lots of UV inhibitors and will definitely slow the darkening. The inhibitors will wear out and you will need to recoat eventually.
However any of the OILs BLO,Tung or the fake Watco will considerably darken the piece.
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homo homini lupus
Edited by JR1 (05/14/12 01:19 PM)
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Richard D.
Off his rocker
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6307
Loc: Los Angeles
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Why is Poly-Ox only sold by McFeely's and Grainger? How come the manufacturer:
Becker Labs
6205 Highway 91 N, Mountain City, TN 37683
does not have a website and if you look up the address it is in the middle of nowhere and looks like a cabin in the woods? Why would you pay $28.50 for a quart when comparable products like General Finishes High Performance are more readily available for $16.99 a quart through a wide assortment of vendors?
It really seems like this is a re-branded product with very little support and a huge mark up. It makes me wonder about the motivation to continuously promote the product in the forum with no apparent hands on experience of using it.
I would love to be proven wrong with at least one post of a picture from a project finished with this product not to mention the waxed shellac mixed from flakes mentioned ad nauseum. As of yet there has been no proof and zero credibility established.
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RD
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Boxman
Knows about Nickels.
Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 27066
Loc: North Bend, WA, USA
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Mike, I've finished quite a bit of maple with waterborne poly/acrylic finishes and I can assure you that they will pop the grain, perhaps not as much as putting an amber hue in but they're far from dull and lifeless as many claim. I'd recommend that you get some pints and experiment on your own with scraps.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
- Herbert Spencer
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Almost any one can make a waterborne these days. All you need is the chemicals that you want to combine to make the finish and one of many techniques to form a stable emulsion. You can make a poor man's one yourself with BLO and any polar solvent—e.g. water (think salad dressing).
If it get warm enough I am planing to use some on a nice piece of walnut and will post before and after pics when it gets warm enough. I recommend it because I use and like it. Why don't you stop carping and buy a quart and try for your self.
Becker primarily markets to wood shops etc wholesale.
BTW do you work for GF or maybe Rustoleum?
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homo homini lupus
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Richard D.
Off his rocker
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6307
Loc: Los Angeles
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Looks like it's in the 70's and 80's all week where you live so I guess we'll get to see that nice piece of Walnut soon. It's just puzzling that someone with so many tool and finish recommendations would never post a picture of something they have actually built.
I don't work for a manufacturer and I only "harp" on it for the sake of the less informed members of the forum who may be misled by repetitive posts and mistake you for an authority on the subject. I am not presenting myself as anything other than who I am and what my abilities are. I wish you would do the same.
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RD
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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No idea where your get that from. NWS7 day forcast. today they were high by ~5º. I'm going to put Crystalac on the good side and drill test holes in the back. I'm trying an experiment and I'm afraid that it will not do what I want.
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homo homini lupus
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Richard D.
Off his rocker
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6307
Loc: Los Angeles
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I thought you were closer to Colorado Springs. I see Cripple Creek has 1000 people and is at 10,000 feet. This explains a lot. Lack of oxygen to the brain!
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RD
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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I did my daughter's maple dresser and night stands with a clear semi-gloss Poly (or was it gloss?), and didn't like the way the grain disappeared. Here's a picture of it (This was her design, and caused me all kinds of problems with the angles).
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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And the night stands:
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NiteWalker
Member
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 5912
Loc: Albany, NY
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Here's a case I did with my go-to finish, zinsser sealcoat followed by crystalac 2001.
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"I buy tools so i can make more money, so I can buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tools, so I can work more..."
"Happiness is seeing that big brown truck pull up in front of the house".
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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I can easily see the grain in your case, so zinsser sealcoat just jumped to the top of the list.
Thanks,
Mike
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Zisser sealcoat is just over priced orange shellac. You can mix your own and do better cheaper! Shellac isn't real durable but should be fine for a lightly used book case, and its very easy to repair.
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homo homini lupus
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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Nightwalker's picture doesn't look orange or dark.
Do you have some maple that was finished with orange shellac?
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NiteWalker
Member
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 5912
Loc: Albany, NY
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IIRC, sealcoat is blonde dewaxed shellac.
IME, when I researched pricing, it was roughly the same or a bit more for the kind you mix.
Mind you, I have nothing against the shellac you mix from flakes, but for what I use it for (a sealer and light grain enhancer), the sealcoat works well enough, and the savings in time and effort vs. mixing my own is what keeps me from trying the flakes.
Were I to do a shellac only finish I'd do it from flakes.
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"I buy tools so i can make more money, so I can buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tools, so I can work more..."
"Happiness is seeing that big brown truck pull up in front of the house".
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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JR1 said:
Zisser sealcoat is just over priced orange shellac. You can mix your own and do better cheaper! Shellac isn't real durable but should be fine for a lightly used book case, and its very easy to repair.
Wait... $15 for a quart of Zinsser Sealcoat is overpriced? What store do you buy from?
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18895
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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NiteWalker said:
IIRC, sealcoat is blonde dewaxed shellac.
IME, when I researched pricing, it was roughly the same or a bit more for the kind you mix.
Mind you, I have nothing against the shellac you mix from flakes, but for what I use it for (a sealer and light grain enhancer), the sealcoat works well enough, and the savings in time and effort vs. mixing my own is what keeps me from trying the flakes.
Were I to do a shellac only finish I'd do it from flakes.
All excellent and accurate information.
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Howie.........
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Yes it is. Orange shllac is $28/lb with shipping, Sunnyside DNA is $15/gallon (with sales tax) so the cost per quart is ~$11. If you buy quantity from AAper the DNA in 5 gallon lots is ~$8/gallon allowing for the ridiculous HAZMAT shipping charge.
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homo homini lupus
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6553
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Yes here's a picture:
If you are not doing a lot of shellac then Zisser is the way to go.
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homo homini lupus
Edited by JR1 (05/16/12 09:56 AM)
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Richard D.
Off his rocker
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 6307
Loc: Los Angeles
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RD
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Lumber Yard®
Member
Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 9696
Loc: Behind a computer screen.
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Richard D. said:
+1 and WINNING! 
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"I don't lie, but I sometime I make up figures..." Puffin 1-1-2013 aka SML
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David G
Member
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1687
Loc: Houston, TX
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All right, you silly guys, here is picture of maple with Zinsser shellac on the case and legs plus Zinsser orange/amber shellac on the top. The top is a curly birch plywood which accounts for some of the difference. BTW, the legs were finished with the Rude & Crude method discussed earlier. Wipe shellac on, buff back with #0000 steel wool, wax. Great way to prefinish each piece during the construction process.
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They told me anybody could do it, but I showed them.
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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Orange shellac is out. That will not work.
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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David that is a great looking table and I like the Zinsser Sealcoat shellac look. Where did you get your shellac? In Houston? or mail order?
What wax did you use to finish it with?
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David G
Member
Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1687
Loc: Houston, TX
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Lowes carries Zinsser Sealcoat in quart and gallon containers. I think Home Depot does as well. Wax is probably just any old paste wax. I'm into easy finishes!
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They told me anybody could do it, but I showed them.
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mcabr
Member
Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 17
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Have you tried Rustoleum ultimate poly? It's a WB finish and comes in a few different finishes. I feel like it kept the white of the maple, but made the grain a little more pronounced. Of course Ive had some mixed results with it. Maybe you can pick up a small can at Lowes and try it out.
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NiteWalker
Member
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 5912
Loc: Albany, NY
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What I find interesting is that it has a matte sheen too. I haven't seen that with many others.
My lowe's has gallons of sealcoat, but not quarts. 
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"I buy tools so i can make more money, so I can buy more tools so I can work more, to make more money, so I can buy more tools, so I can work more..."
"Happiness is seeing that big brown truck pull up in front of the house".
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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Lowe's has it in the quart size for $14.47. It looks much better than the other 3 things I tried on my scrap pieces. Thanks.
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MikeSmith
Member
Registered: 08/03/08
Posts: 1191
Loc: Houston, Republic of Texas
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Two weeks to refinish... I blew that timeline all to hell...
I am finished, and I am happy with the way it turned out. The Zinsser Sealcoat and the Deft semi-gloss lacquer did what i wanted them to do. Thanks for the info.
Here's the finished product:
And some curly maple flavoring:
And this is how I finished the shelves without doing a two step process:
I'm thinking my grandson will like it.
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