KingwoodFan1989
Member
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Tracy, CA
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I'm test finishing some scraps to see how I want to finish my table top. I think I've found the general finishing process as far as the look and sheen I want, and I love the color contrast between the mahogany and cherry this process is giving me. I'm having to pre-finish the mahogany parts before I glue them to the cherry ones because I want the natural color of the cherry but a deeper color from the mahogany, which I've succeeded in doing.
However, the grain pores on the mahogany still show through even after several coats of sanding sealer. I tried filling the pores on some scrap last night and I sanded the excess off after it dried. It seems to have stayed in the pores, but after the second coat of sanding sealer, there are still lots of little dips where the grain opens up.
I've seen people put the filler on and then when it dries (which takes just a matter of minutes for me), they wipe off the small haze on top with some burlap, but this doesn't seem to work for me. I have to sand off the excess. Does doing this remove some of the filler from the pores? If so, how can I avoid doing that? If sanding doesn't remove some of it, why am I still getting little dips in the grain when I put finish on? I put on the filler and scraped off as much wet excess as I could across the grain so as not to pull it out of the pores.
Is there any way to totally get rid of those little grain dips in the pores, or do I just have to live with them? I want a high gloss finish, and while I want some of the grain character to still shine through (no pun intended), I don't want as much of it as this.
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Near future projects:
-2 Nightstands (Oak with figured walnut drawer fronts)
-Curly Maple display case
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6535
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Give this clear grain filer a test. I haven't tried it myself, but a lot of folks like it. Rockler also carries it but McFeeleys is cheaper and has $1 shipping. Test it on some scrap and forget the sanding sealer.
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homo homini lupus
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KingwoodFan1989
Member
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Tracy, CA
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Lol, after I posted this, I went out and checked on it again...I can still see and feel some of the little dips, but then I turned the board over and compared it to the other side where I already had several coats of the sanding sealer and even a couple of shellac (my topcoat, which I'll polish to a gloss on the final piece), but no pore filler...even though it had way more coats on it than the side that I had put the filler on, it had a lot more pores showing. I'm guessing that I was wrong to expect all of the pores to become filled 100%, right? I should probably get better at using the stuff before expecting so much of it.
I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have posted this before I double checked, but what's done is done. However, I might as well ask this since you said it: Why should I "forget the sanding sealer"? Is it not needed once I did the filler?
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Near future projects:
-2 Nightstands (Oak with figured walnut drawer fronts)
-Curly Maple display case
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chemmy
Member
Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 178
Loc: Knoxville TN
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you really are not supposed to build the finish with sanding sealers or any sealers King wood, they were not meant for that purpose. sealers are a first coat material normally, though there are special building sealers that are used, the everyday ones are not of that type ok? you can thin the sealer 1-1 or 1-2 and apply 3 thinned coats if needed if and when there is reason to do so, but don't build with them, there is more to the chemistry of lacquer sealers than just the addition of sanding aids ok?
a first class filler can give you a very close to fully filled surface where just a few coats are necessary to finish them off, the resins will vary from acrylics to alkyds or even oils, some are of inert fillers such as plasters or silex or other forms of non reactive transparent or opaque, whiting, pumice, all used with pigments to color them out in the desired color wanted to be obtained.
You just need to try some others till you find one that works best for you ok? Others i know and judgement i trust say that one called "crystalac" works very well for them, but i can't say from expierience.
Having done pianos for decades i can guide you in older type fillers but take heed the process is not quick.
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KingwoodFan1989
Member
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Tracy, CA
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Okay. So it's more of a first coat. Even though I already put two coats of oil on, is it still okay to use just one coat of the sanding sealer before the shellac or should I not even bother with one?
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Near future projects:
-2 Nightstands (Oak with figured walnut drawer fronts)
-Curly Maple display case
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chemmy
Member
Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 178
Loc: Knoxville TN
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Actually i would do the opposite, shellac first then the sealer [1 coat] shellac has better hold out [keeps the lacquers from soaking in] than the sanding sealer does.
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KingwoodFan1989
Member
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Tracy, CA
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Wait, I need to clarify.....I'm actually using the shellac as my top coat (and I'm doing about 6-8 coats sprayed on)....I've used it before and it polishes great. In that case, should I put on one or two coats of sealer and then sand that before I do the shellac, or should I skip the sanding sealer altogether?
I know shellac probably isn't the best finish for a table top (just imagine if someone set a glass with an alcoholic beverage in it on the table without using a coaster.....), but I love how fast it dries and I really don't want to spend any more money on finish just yet.
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Near future projects:
-2 Nightstands (Oak with figured walnut drawer fronts)
-Curly Maple display case
Edited by KingwoodFan1989 (05/27/12 12:13 AM)
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chemmy
Member
Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 178
Loc: Knoxville TN
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Boy your beyond my ability to reply, i honestly have never built up shellac that much before, when i want a shiney smooth surface i friction polish it [french polish] and that film is only a mil or so thick. i've never had reason to spray several or more coats for a piano finish 
but if you have done this alot over time and can see no problems, then yes, that being the case, i would use all shellac instead of both.
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KingwoodFan1989
Member
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Tracy, CA
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^Is it hard to learn how to French Polish? I won't do it on this project, but I think it'd be a good thing to learn in the future.
I'll be sure to put up pictures of this project when I finish it. When I do, be sure to let me know if I can achieve similar results using less finish through French Polishing. 
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Near future projects:
-2 Nightstands (Oak with figured walnut drawer fronts)
-Curly Maple display case
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chemmy
Member
Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 178
Loc: Knoxville TN
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Will do Kingwood, and yes it is a good thing to know, may come a day when they outlaw spraying to, lol.
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