J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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This post is related to Joel Moskowitz's thread about the Work Magazine article instructing the hand tool enthusiast of 1889 how to make his own patterns and subsequent castings to produce an infill smoothing plane.
For those new to the discussion, the original post can be found here.
To catch everyone up, I have started a list of woodnet members who have contacted me wanting to join the fun of purchasing a raw set of castings to finish and fit-out with the stuffing of their choice.
Here are the terms I have come up with to join the build (quoted from my post yesterday):
"$80 for one body and one lever cap in manganese bronze, the cap screw is not included. This price reflects the current cost for this alloy, new sand (to achieve the greatest surface finish/ solidity of casting), time to ram each mold, pour and clean the castings. I will remove all flash and gating. It must be said, the parts you will receive will be sound and dimensionally accurate, but will not be finished, nor complete. That is your fun to have. I have worked every angle to get the lowest price and have even considered quantity. I am estimating this cost for an order of 10 planes, minimum. If we cannot get that total, I can still do the castings, but we will have to reconsider the price at that time. Delivery is not included; I'm guessing a flat rate box will get the pieces to everyone at the lowest cost.
To those ready to commit, please send me a PM with your name and quantity you want so I can start a list. I will not collect money until the planes are cast and ready for shipment. I will not take any money until I am satisfied with the quality of the pieces. I have not decided on a deadline to sign up. We'll cross that bridge as the time approaches to pour."
GOOD NEWS! At the present, we have achieved my 10 plane threshold and the list is steadily growing.
Up next: A little more about myself, since I am altogether unknown to this community at the present, plus photos of the build as it progresses.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Now, a little more info, so I'm not a total stranger to anyone.
As I have mentioned in other posts, I was introduced to woodworking at the wee age of 5 or 6 through the patternmaking shop in my father and grandfather's small business. I fondly call the company ULCO, and am proud to be of such a clever bunch. The specialty of ULCO is producing steam locomotives of most sizes (the smallest being about 1/2 scale, the largest being full-size narrow gauge equipment) and anything else related to trains in general. To make such far-reaching ideas materialize, my grandfather, in 1948 decided he needed to make his own foundry and machine shop in the back yard. He did so, and did much more to boot.
Long story short, over time, my Dad took the operation over and is presently managing its operations with passion. One thing that people are always sure to tell me, "Those two have and are doing what they love." I agree and I believe it is a beautiful thing. I am grateful that I have grown up in such an environment of passion and craft. It is in my genes. Unfortunately, in some regards, trains do not stir the same passion in me. I have, however, taken that same passion and have applied it to woodworking.
The story doesn't end with woodworking though. I think I may have been tainted with the metalworking bug too. I almost love working with metal as much as wood, even though they are so very different (yet so similar, right?). To bring it all together, I have over the years toyed with making woodworking tools in my spare time. I have only done a few, but the urge keeps growing, and more are coming.
So, enough of that, here are a few photos...
The ULCO foundry a few years ago during an iron pour. This is what's called a 'double ladle tap'. I've been on the ladle crew for iron pours since I was 14.
A run of plow plane irons in the rough, awaiting milling. O1 steel.
The plows in eager anticipation of their irons. QS Beech.
I made this smoother out of boredom while living in New Orleans (possible?!?). Bronze sides pinned to a steel sole. Some kind of rosewood - I don't remember.
All of the metal elements were scrap. The sides were 100+ year old worn-out slides from a steam locomotive.
I lost a girlfriend over this plane. Another long story.
Edited by J. Conrad (04/23/12 09:25 PM)
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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Sounds like an interesting story and that's a beautiful smoother - hope ours turn out as well! Thanks for posting.
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True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Sorry for all of the background stuff. I hope it's been a good chuckle...
Here are the photos I currently have of THIS project:
A SolidWorks rendering of the body. I used scaled images from Joel's pdf to sketch the sole and side profiles as accurately as possible. Everything should be to scale.
This is a good representation of the bed angle and such.
A chosen chunk of Cuban (?) Mahogany to make the pattern from. Nail holes aside, it's good stuff.
After jointing one edge.
Just a rough layout of the major parts needed.
According to the article, the sole is 5/32" thick. Just like furniture, plane to the scribe line!
Pasting a 1:1 sole drawing for accurate layout, then roughed to size.
After planing JUST to the perimeter, scribe the mouth on the sole.
I have removed the part of the drawing where the mouth and "frog" dwell. The sole is twice as thick just behind the mouth.
Here I have glued a scrap form the sole profile in the location just behind the mouth. This will be trimmed next.
To be continued...
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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That is a fine looking holdfast. Who made it?
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Amos
Member
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
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I want to hear the plane/girlfriend story.
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www.chesapeakewood.wordpress.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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It is a fine holdfast. I spent a couple days at the blacksmith shop of Peter Ross last summer. I was there for a plane making class taught by Bill Anderson at Roy's school. I think you can get them from Peter through a message via his website.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Amos said:
I want to hear the plane/girlfriend story.
I'll need a couple beers to get that story started 
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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We have officially reached the 20 plane order mark. I am now setting the limit at 24 TOTAL. That means there are now 4 spots left for this run.
If you want to sign up for this, don't wait too long. I'd love for the list to stretch to eternity, but I have a day job 
I will officially close the list once 24 planes are spoken for.
Thanks to everyone involved so far. The encouragement and interest is heartening.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Amos
Member
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
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I'm in. PM sent.
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www.chesapeakewood.wordpress.com
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Kiefer
Member
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 31
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Geez, resistance is futile. I'm in. PM sent.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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OK, the list is now CLOSED. Any PM sent after the time stamp of this post will have to be left out of this build.
Have no fear though, if this project goes well, there will be more fun in the future.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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Me too.
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John
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anotherBob
Member
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 253
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Dittos, and thanks for doing this J. Conrad. Sounds like a really fun project...
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Corneel
Member
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1689
Loc: The Netherlands
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GoOd luck, you 'chosen' ones. We who are left behind expect nothing but most excellent results of course. Lots an lots of pictures will be made and posted on this forum as is usual in these circumstances. 
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seekelot.blogspot.com
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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That looks like a fun project. I'll be very interested to see some of the build alongs. I may have to pull the trigger on the next round
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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J. Conrad said:
OK, the list is now CLOSED. Any PM sent after the time stamp of this post will have to be left out of this build.
Have no fear though, if this project goes well, there will be more fun in the future.
So, am I in or out? My PM might have been a minute or two after the time stamp of your post, but your post was not yet visible when I sent the PM.
Either way, have fun everyone.
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John
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jnesmith said:
So, am I in or out? My PM might have been a minute or two after the time stamp of your post, but your post was not yet visible when I sent the PM.
Either way, have fun everyone.
John, I just sent you a PM. Unfortunately, I did have to keep the lid on the initial list, but you are first on the wait list.
Thanks for the good wishes.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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joemcglynn
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Santa Cruz, CA
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Cool project, sorry I missed the cut!
I'm curious about the pattern work, two quick questions and a few opinions.
It looks like you're not accounting for shrinkage from the casting. I think for brass alloys it's about 3/16" per foot. As long as there is enough clearance for the blade width it's probably not critical.
The other question is about draft on the sidewalls. I'm assuming the parting line will be at the sole. Are you going to add draft to the pattern? How will folks get rid of the taper when finishing the planes? I guess the infil can be shaped to fit the taper on the inside, and the outside can be ground or filed straight.
Are you going to cast the mouth open? I'd be inclined to have that closed, but with the bedding angle cast in. Or perhaps no bedding angle in case folks want to make a plane with a higher pitch? My thinking is that the metal will flow better in that area, there will be less chance of sand inclusions around the throat, and folks will be able to size the mouth to work perfectly with the blade thickness and bed angle.
On materials -- Silicon Bronze casts really well, and is very weldable. If you use that for the material it's easy to repair castings that have the inevitable sand pit or whatever.
Joe
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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J. Conrad said:
jnesmith said:
So, am I in or out? My PM might have been a minute or two after the time stamp of your post, but your post was not yet visible when I sent the PM.
Either way, have fun everyone.
John, I just sent you a PM. Unfortunately, I did have to keep the lid on the initial list, but you are first on the wait list.
Thanks for the good wishes.
It's probably better than I watch and learn this time around anyway. Should be fun for everyone. Looking forward to seeing how it goes.
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John
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Bibliophile 13
Moderator
Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 7074
Loc: South Alabama
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J. Conrad said:
OK, the list is now CLOSED. Any PM sent after the time stamp of this post will have to be left out of this build.
Thank Heavens! I was on the edge. You just saved me eighty bucks.
J. Conrad said:
Have no fear though, if this project goes well, there will be more fun in the future.
Only to keep me on edge for a future project. Guess I'd better write this into my budget ahead of time. 
Anyhow, I really appreciate the pics. Looks like you've got a great operation going on. I wish you all the best.
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Steve S.
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Tradition cannot be inherited, and if you want it you must obtain it by great labour.
- T. S. Eliot
Tutorials and Build-Alongs at The Literary Workshop
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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I took a quick look at my Norris no 4 - which is essentially a dovetailed version of the plane we are planning to build. The length of the norris is a touch longer than the Work Magazine plane - 7 1/2" versus 7 1/8" - who cares. I had thought the mouth was a little forward but in fact it's spot on - 2" in both planes.
The wall thickness of the Norris is 1/8" .
here is a picture:
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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When you build the new plane you can sell that ratty old Norris No 4 to me for a resonable price that way you'll not have to look at it anymore,Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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LENPAM said:
When you build the new plane you can sell that ratty old Norris No 4 to me for a resonable price that way you'll not have to look at it anymore,Len
Len,
I'll think about it....... Nah....... I think I will keep it.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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shoottx
Member
Registered: 06/25/08
Posts: 1246
Loc: Plano Tx
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Yup, not in the budget, (meaning I am really cheap) but I am fascinated at watching the build. As a voyeur, please keep the pictures and narrative coming.
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Often in Error, Never in Doubt
Mike Jury
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Todd O. Cronkhite
Honored Veteran
Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 12573
Loc: Jacksonville Flori-duh
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J. Conrad said:
All of the metal elements were scrap. The sides were 100+ year old worn-out slides from a steam locomotive.
That is so  on so many levels!
J. Conrad said:
I lost a girlfriend over this plane. Another long story.
Ya' just gotta tell us this story! 
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Other people... all of them.
Chit, I've become Fred. StuRat 03/02/13
I'd rather stab myself in the rectum with a mortise chisel than waste time reading a Government budget... Fred 3/23/13
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
I took a quick look at my Norris no 4 - which is essentially a dovetailed version of the plane we are planning to build. The length of the norris is a touch longer than the Work Magazine plane - 7 1/2" versus 7 1/8" - who cares. I had thought the mouth was a little forward but in fact it's spot on - 2" in both planes.
The wall thickness of the Norris is 1/8" .
What's the blade width of that Norris? I think they were available with 1 3/4, 2 and 2 1/4 inch.
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lightwood
Member
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 142
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James,
I have a question regarding how the throats were treated in the pattern and castings of planes.
All that I have read say the throat is cast open.
My experience with casting is not hands on, so I was thinking it possible a hole like that can cause distortion and cracking.
What makes me ask, is this rough casting of a locally made Stanley plane.
Here are a couple of pictures of a an unfinished casting of a #4 Stanley, made in Australia in 1981. There is a sacrificial block on the base that would be machined away leaving the throat open.
I've not had the chance to ask anyone with a history in the casting of iron or copper alloys...Do you think there is any merit to this approach, or is a compensation for a non-existent problem?
Thanks,
Peter
In Melbourne, Australia.
Made in Australia, Stanley #4 Plane Rough Casting.
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CedarSlayer
Killer of aromatic wood
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 2633
Loc: College Station, TX
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lightwood said:
James,
I have a question regarding how the throats were treated in the pattern and castings of planes.
All that I have read say the throat is cast open.
My experience with casting is not hands on, so I was thinking it possible a hole like that can cause distortion and cracking.
As I recall, a lot of iron castings where left out in the weather for a year or so to let the stress relax before machining, With a rectangular opening left open, could deform badly unless it was filled like that. I even think I recall that round holes are best done like that as well. This is a dim recollection that is over 25 years old, so I may a bit off.
By the way, that unfinished casting would be great for making a casting.
Bob
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toolmakingart.com
When you have eliminated all unnecessary wood, then whatever remains, however well formed, is too small to serve as originally intended.
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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JimBelair said:
What's the blade width of that Norris? I think they were available with 1 3/4, 2 and 2 1/4 inch.
2 1/4"
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Joe, thanks for the input, see my responses
joemcglynn said:
It looks like you're not accounting for shrinkage from the casting. I think for brass alloys it's about 3/16" per foot. As long as there is enough clearance for the blade width it's probably not critical.
Looking up this alloy, it is actually closer to 1/4" per foot shrinkage (98% the size). I am not terribly worried about clearance inside, but am keeping it in mind. We lose a little less than 0.050" across the width of the mouth, but there is clearance between the sidewalls.
joemcglynn said:
The other question is about draft on the sidewalls. I'm assuming the parting line will be at the sole. Are you going to add draft to the pattern? How will folks get rid of the taper when finishing the planes? I guess the infil can be shaped to fit the taper on the inside, and the outside can be ground or filed straight.
Yes, I'm giving it draft. The sidewalls are tapered in section. Photos are below. The inside of the casting will have ever the slightest draft, shy of 1/32". Same with the outside, but this material is removed from the outside with not too much effort to true the sides to the sole. The stuffing inside will have to be tapered to fit the casting, but again, it is nothing an intermediate woodworker can't handle. The parting line is the sole.
joemcglynn said:
Are you going to cast the mouth open? I'd be inclined to have that closed, but with the bedding angle cast in. Or perhaps no bedding angle in case folks want to make a plane with a higher pitch? My thinking is that the metal will flow better in that area, there will be less chance of sand inclusions around the throat, and folks will be able to size the mouth to work perfectly with the blade thickness and bed angle.
This is a very good point. I have been thinking for some time how I can cast the mouth open without causing issues during the pour. I'm not concerned about fracturing and whatnot, as some ave mentioned, but relying on the molten material to flow through the thin sidewalls and around the void of the mouth is a challenge. Answer? THANKS LIGHTWOOD! The photos of the No. 4 are enlightening! I will add a sacrificial boss to the bottom, which is later removed when the sole is trued. I will remove the boss, so don't worry folks! This boss allows the mouth to still be cut into the body, and once the boss is removed, voila, the open mouth is exposed!
joemcglynn said:
On materials -- Silicon Bronze casts really well, and is very weldable. If you use that for the material it's easy to repair castings that have the inevitable sand pit or whatever.
I also agree here, but magnanese bronze is much stronger (a plus for such thin castings) and inclusions will hopefully not be a problem.
Joe
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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As for the casting having an open mouth - I just want to point out that the original article has an open mouth and the author didn't consider pouring an open mouth (in cast iron) worthy of mention. This is not to say having a removeable boss isn't a good idea - but it wasn't a big deal apparently then.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Time for an update, here we go.
The scrap element to establish the bed angle and reinforce the sole just behind the mouth is trimmed to the perimeter. That's enough for work on the mouth right now. It's time for some walls...
Using the profile of the sole as the template, I simply trace the contour onto the edge of some stock. Two parallel arcs drawn in this way give me the thickness of the side. I'm shooting for about 3/16" thick sides in the rough.
I have purposely drawn walls on two pieces of stock just in case I screw up with the bandsaw. Hopefully, I can ge the two walls out of one chunk of wood.
Aaannnnd, success. The thin ends of one of the walls are not a concern because everything is oversized.
Using my trusty Stanley 53, I clean up the outside a little. I also use the scraps from roughing these out for support of the newly curved wall.
A little scraping afterward gets me closer to true.
Once scraped, I use a little 180gr stickyback sandpaper on a flat block to true the outside. I tried to get a photo of the witness marks left by this to no avail. It's very similar to lapping. Bumps and hollows show their ugly faces durned quick. Of note, the outside is checked against my full-size sole drawing often to ensure I'm not drifting too far from ideal.
Can you see the gauge line? I use the outside as a guide surface to establish the thickness. The bottom of the wall is to be a little more than 5/32" thick. The top, about 1/8". Of course, it's important that I made these sidewall pieces the right height before gauging the top and bottom thicknesses.
This shot kind of shows you what the inside looks like after repeating the steps I did on the outside for the inside, but now have used the little crescent scrap from roughing-out with some sandpaper to lap the inside. The fuzzy spots are high spots that I eventually work down to a uniform arced plane.
This fits good enough for now. The wall is uniform in its faces, but tapered bottom to top. I try to keep everything oversize just a little bit until the total fit-up of the walls so I can trim the corners perfect.
I measured the walls as I was finishing up tonight, after feeling good about everything, only to find one of them undersize in thickness by about 20 thou. I guess my mind got distracted with articles on NPR about mining asteroids and an electric pizza delivery scooter in denmark.
electric pizza delivery scooter
Crap. Well, that's why I have another blank in reserve.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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joemcglynn
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Santa Cruz, CA
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Joe - this looks great!
I agree with the idea of the sacrificial block, that's a great solution. Plus, if it's in the drag it will double as a sand trap.
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joemcglynn
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Santa Cruz, CA
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I really like what your doing with this project, I wish I'd seen it before you had to cap it.
I wanted to share an approach that I've used in the past, it's worked out well for me. Some of the stuff I make has curves and delicate details that would be hard (for me) to shape in a wooden pattern.
For short runs (say 1,000 parts, maybe more) when sand casting, this is a good approach and not terribly expensive.
I design the parts in SolidWorks, which allows me to add in the necessary draft, check for undercuts, add material for machining, etc. Then I scale the entire model up by whatever the shrink factor of the material is (it's a tool in SolidWorks - it just enlarges the model by whatever the factor is). Probably most 3D modeling tools have something like this.
Then I export the model in .STL format and use a service bureau (I use stereolithography.com) to produce a master. This gives me a plastic master that I can attach to a pattern board and use directly to make parts. I prime and sand the stereolith first to get a super smooth surface. If I want to have multiple copies per mold I can make copies of the master using a casting plastic - if I can get 3 or 4 parts on a pattern board it's a lot cheaper per part.
For larger runs (or bigger/more complicated parts) I scale the model by two shrink factors, produce the stereolith and have a company back east cast an aluminum match plate (the uses up one of the shrink factors). That's more expensive, but the pattern lasts forever.
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Derek Cohen
Member
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 4442
Loc: Perth, Australia
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One for Joel or Len ...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-FINE-NOR...#ht_4650wt_1361
For comparison .... or MORE! 
(I hope this is not spoiling someone's surprise ambush).
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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Nice picture.
I am personally not a fan of the open handle - I feel much more solid in a closed handled. the 2: width is unusual 2 1/4" being the norm. The 2" norrises I have are a little shorter than the 2 1/4" but not by much - 1/2" maybe.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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Well, crud! I thought I had made a commitment in the first thread, but didn't check in to WN for 24 hours, and find myself on the outside looking in because I didn't PM in time.
Good luck to you all . . . I was really hoping to have one of these sitting on my plane till.
J. Conrad said:
OK, the list is now CLOSED. Any PM sent after the time stamp of this post will have to be left out of this build.
Have no fear though, if this project goes well, there will be more fun in the future.
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Jason28
Member
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1458
Loc: Doylestown, PA
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I hesitated too long too. Who knows? Maybe they'll do a second run.
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Jason
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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I have one and the No 2 also,but it's a real good worker better then then the A5 IMO.Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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One more update needing a decision from the group soon.
Thanks to Joel, we have been connected with Ron Hock for the iron. Rather than the run of the mill double irons and such, Ron has volunteered to produce a batch of custom single irons for the best value he can offer.
We spoke on the phone today, and this is where we stand:
High-carbon steel (no A2 for this historic gem!)
2-1/4" Wide
3/16" Thick
Solid iron, no slot, etc.
As mentioned above, no cap iron.
Ron's standard shape is rectangular, with small-radiused top corners. It will be simplest to stay with that, but he can do a traditional looking iron with the tapered upper sides if we demand it. Right, Ron?
Also, I need consensus on the length of the iron. If you are to scale the (double) iron in the article, it is just shy of 6" in real life. Infill experts: what length do you recommend? Joel, I believe you mentioned 7 or 7-1/2" long.
So to recap, we need consensus on:
Upper side edge profiles: straight with standard rectangular corners, or tapered?
Length of the iron.
Those on the list will purchase their iron directly from Ron. Once we hammer-out the details, he can get a price for us and begin making the batch.
Thanks Ron! It was a pleasure speaking with you today.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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I say tapered. Echos the coffin shape of the body and keeps it traditional (even though there's no cap iron).
James I imagine you'll be wanting a deposit shortly as you're putting serious effort into this project already. Just say the word man.
Jim B
Edited by JimBelair (04/25/12 09:13 PM)
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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I did not recommend an iron length except as a guess. I will give it some thought. I do think a short iron would be fine since without a slot more of the iron is useable anyway.
joel
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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A vote for tapered iron, 6" length.
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True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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I vote for 7-7 1/2" length with the tapered top portion of the iron. Classic size and shape.
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whutchis
Member
Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 48
Loc: Milton, PA
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I vote for the tapered top on the iron. The length depicted in the Work mag. article looks to be about 5" or so. Anything that length or longer should be fine.
Cheers,
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-----wade
Working wood in Milton, PA
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Shawn Stennett
Honored Veteran
Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 288
Loc: Buffalo,Tx
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I will be happy with what the consenses decide.
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kompera
Member
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2610
Loc: Boston, MA
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Shawn Stennett said:
I will be happy with what the consenses decide.
Me also, but I don't want one that's too long.
I always think they look silly sticking way out the top of a smoother, and it just gets in the way of your hand/wrist.
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"The things I make may be for others, but how I make them is for me." -Tony Konovaloff
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davidf
Member
Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Toronto, Canada
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With regard to the blade size and shape, I'll also go with the consensus. I know that Joel Moskowitz and Ron Hock know better than I!!
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imapseudonym
Member
Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1024
Loc: Burlington, VT
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Shawn Stennett said:
I will be happy with what the consenses decide.
+1
--------------------
''How can we ever hope to understand atoms?'' Heisenberg had lamented that day.
''I think we may yet be able to do so,'' Bohr replied. ''But in the process we may have to learn what the word 'understanding' really means.''
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Kiefer
Member
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 31
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kompera said:
Shawn Stennett said:
I will be happy with what the consenses decide.
Me also, but I don't want one that's too long.
I always think they look silly sticking way out the top of a smoother, and it just gets in the way of your hand/wrist.
I agree with the above, and would vote for a shorter blade, say 5 or 6 inches. I am understanding that the blade won't have a slot. I won't use up that much blade in this lifetime.
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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Here are some links to examples of vintage infill smoothers and their blade lengths;
To me, the longer length looks appropriate.
Edited by Blacky's Boy (04/26/12 10:34 AM)
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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here's a norris no. 4 with the blade out.
it's 3/16" thick, about 6 1/2" long. My guess is that originally iron was around 7" long.
a 3/16" iron with a cap iron should perform a little better than a 3/16" iron without a cap iron, I would wonder if Ron can do a 1/4" iron.
as for comfort the length of the iron makes no difference but the length of the rear infill does. this plane has a slightly longer rear infill than the Work plane but I am not sure it matters. in general if you hold your hand too high on the rear it hits the iron and is uncomfortable. this geometry of the plane keeps your hand behind the plane to push better. 
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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barryvabeach
Member
Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1205
Loc: Va Beach VA
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I don't have a dog in this fight, I am not an expert on infills, but I have some and have made a number of replacement irons. 6 inch is a very economical choice, since ground stock usually comes in 18 inches or 3 foot lengths, so you can get 3 out of an 18" piece. While I make them 6 inches long for that reason, and they work fine, and would have plenty of life even if you cut a slot on it for a double iron, if you are concerned about the look, I would go for a longer iron - it would look more like the infills that were made commercially.
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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if you don't have a cut iron - which we are not planning to 6" gives a lot of blade life, although I doubt Ron gets his steel in 18" lengths so this probably isn't an important scrap factor. Visually I think a longer blade looks better.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
Edited by Joel (Tools for Working Wood) (04/26/12 11:23 AM)
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merrick
Member
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 263
Loc: ABQ, NM
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Any thought on adding a small tap/screw to the iron to prevent it from falling out of the mouth?
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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" --John 5:24
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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merrick said:
Any thought on adding a small tap/screw to the iron to prevent it from falling out of the mouth?
Seems like a good idea. I'm for the 1/4 inch iron too.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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JimBelair said:
I'm for the 1/4 inch iron too.
I'm not so sure 1/4" thick would be the most appropriate here. For some reason, (more historical?) 3/16" seems good to me.
Here's a blog entry by Ron about thick vs. thin blades.
I still plan to do a chipbreaker/iron setup in one plane and just a thicker, single iron in another for grins.
I'll speak with Ron again to see what we can realistically do for our options.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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merrick
Member
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 263
Loc: ABQ, NM
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I'd go for 3/16 as it is plenty thick. I still have some O1 left & may just cut/heat treat my own.
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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" --John 5:24
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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I'll go with whatever the consensus is also, but I think a longer iron and 3/16 would be more historically accurate and more attractive.
I also just wanted to post to make it easier to find this thread.
Pedro
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If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Greetings, lads!
It's high-time you all had an update on this project:
I have been balancing the day job and various personal matters of the past week with getting the pattern finalized and ready for prime time. I have shaped the sides, cut-in the mouth and started on the match board layout. I will have photos of all that tomorrow evening, as I have left the camera at the shop.
In addition, I've done a little more modeling of the parts in solidworks to get a feel for blade lengths. Due to the short sole of this plane, I was a little afraid to make the iron too long. 7" looks to be the right balance. I have spoken to Ron (Hock) again today to settle on the details. The 7" length is good for material yield = better price from him. We have also decided that a 3/16" single iron in high carbon steel will fit the bill. Ron is adamant that 1/4" thick is overkill and is over-rated to boot, which does not give a better cut. I tend to agree. (Awhile back, in my foolish youth, I attempted a 5/16" thick-ironed smoother to go above and beyond others' thick irons. It sucked. The geometry of the bevel made the cutting edge cantilever so far from the bed, that chatter was inevitable.) I believe there is a beautiful balance to strike between too thick and too thin. Therefore, 3/16" is what we've chosen.
So, to sum up our conversation, here are the details:
- High Carbon Steel (which will have a nice old-school dark patina from hardening)
- 3/16" Thick
- 2-1/4" Wide
- Single Iron with no slot for a chipbreaker
- Tapered upper edges, in the traditional manner (See Konrad Sauer's planes for and example.)
- Ron will stamp it with his mark, jut like forges of yore did.
- 30* bevel, which you can alter any way you like.
Ron will post here with any additional details and price.
Now, back to the plane castings; I am making a trip to the foundry this weekend and will pour a few trial castings to ensure I'm on the right track with the pattern layout and so forth.
Stay tuned...
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Pattern Update:
I have been busy with the project, but have been leaving you all somewhat in the dark here. My apologies.
So, to make it up to you, more photos than decency allows (sorry dial-up users!):
Here, I have changed a couple things since the last photo post. I remade this bottom piece to make it thicker, plus added the frog boss with the grain running the same direction as the base. I did this to aid in clean paring of the mouth. The mouth is drilled out with a series of 1/8" holes.
Paring the mouth with a guide block to 47.5*. The front face of the mouth opening is 75*.
Round dogs make great clamping supports for cutting and shaping the top edge of the coffin sides.
Now that the sides are shaped, and the mouth is pared, I am ready to glue it up.
The wagon vise makes and good clamping jig. I could have made matching, fit cauls to squeeze the sides evenly, but the fit was good enough to just assist with small bar clamps where needed. By the way, persimmon makes very durable dogs that don't scar work. These are my favorites.
Now I'm ready to fit the ends.
The line on the right is square to the sole. The left is the internal draft I'm shooting for for the ends. At this point, during glue up, I'm most concerned about draft internal to the body. Ideally, I can get both internal and external with my tapered side pieces, but if not, I can easily re-taper the outside to a consistant angle afterward (not so, inside).
Gluing an oversized end piece to the body, after trimming the ends of the side walls to the draft line referenced above. The second piece inside the larger piece is tapered and fit to establish the inside draft. This piece is waxed so the glue doesn't stick to it. This procedure is repeated for the toe end piece.
I did have to use an, ahem, stationary belt sander set at the angle I needed to give the outside of the body a consistent draft angle. Through this, the sides became thinner than I wanted, so I had to add a layer of 1/42" mahogany veneer to thicken things up a bit. An added bonus of this is giving more strength to the thin walls.
After interior edges are filleted, I am ready for the layout of the pattern on the match board. The flask will be 12" x 12".
The rough layout of the channels and gates. Due to the deep and thin nature of this part, I have decided to cast it vertically. This should allow more consistant filling of the cavity without cold shots (where the molten metal does not fill entirely at a high enough temperature) or shy edges.
Here you can see the tapered channels and gates leading into the part. The idea of a small gate is to regulate the flow and reduce turbulence as the metal fills the part.
Shellac, sand to 400 grit, then a brushable lacquer to seal and produce a slick finish on the pattern. Yes, I know it's a shame to paint over beautiful wood, but this ain't no wall hanging for your momma!
I am at the foundry now, and am in the process of ramming three molds for a test pour today. Cross your fingers--more photos to come!
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Glen C
Member
Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 2114
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Totally fascinating.
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Glen
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne."
--Chaucer
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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This is really interesting stuff; I had no idea what went into this process. Thanks for the info and good luck!
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True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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This is awesome and the photos are great. I am looking forward for my castings!!!
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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CedarSlayer
Killer of aromatic wood
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 2633
Loc: College Station, TX
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I am seriously enjoying this thread! I am am also looking forward to making a smoother and seeing pictures of all the finished smoothers.
Bob
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toolmakingart.com
When you have eliminated all unnecessary wood, then whatever remains, however well formed, is too small to serve as originally intended.
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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CedarSlayer said:
I am seriously enjoying this thread! I am am also looking forward to making a smoother and seeing pictures of all the finished smoothers.
+1
I'm assuming Ron is ready to go on the blades. And someone said they could turn some lever cap screws as I recall?
Do we have any update on pricing for the casting and the blade with the current enrollment at 25 or so?
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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I have the equipment to turn the screws (nice big lathe) and it's not a difficult turning project. And I am willing to give it a whack. I need to coordinate with James on thread size and length but otherwise I just would just copy a Norris level cap screw.
There are two flies in the ointment - Time and I have never used this particular piece of equipment and it's been years since I ran a metal lathe. I like the idea of a simple project - which this is to get my hand back in - but I am so swamped with work I am worried about over committing myself.
So if someone else wants to step in they are welcome. I think James also said he might do it but I am not sure.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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This is a great thread and enjoying seeing the progress. Someday I would love to make one of these, but have way to many things to finish first.
Steve
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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That is going to be one beautiful casting! Nice job on the pattern.
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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I have always been in awe of pattern makers and their ability to construct such accurate casting masters. And I can't thank you enough for taking the time to illustrate the process so clearly.
Once completed, this whole thread deserves to be saved for posterity.
And i can't wait to get in on the second incarnation of this project! :yes;
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See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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This is so cool! I'm excited! Thanks to James and Joel for making it happen and a special thanks to James for sharing the whole pattern-making process. Fascinating!
We're making 30 blades for this project: 3/16" x 2-1/4" x 7", O1, HOCK logo, $40 each. There will be a small hole at the top for hanging in the heat treat oven (not shown in the above photo -- we grind it off of Konrad's blades but we're trying to keep the price of these as low as possible.)
If you want a spare blade, there may be extras available but please order only one for now to be sure everyone who needs one can get one. And there are no guarantees of future availability at this price.
Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order (but we'll ship the whole order complete when the special blades are ready.)
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Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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kompera
Member
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2610
Loc: Boston, MA
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Ron Hock said:
This is so cool! I'm excited! Thanks to James and Joel for making it happen and a special thanks to James for sharing the whole pattern-making process. Fascinating!
We're making 30 blades for this project: 3/16" x 2-1/4" x 7", O1, HOCK logo, $40 each. There will be a small hole at the top for hanging in the heat treat oven (not shown in the above photo -- we grind it off of Konrad's blades but we're trying to keep the price of these as low as possible.)
If you want a spare blade, there may be extras available but please order only one for now to be sure everyone who needs one can get one. And there are no guarantees of future availability at this price.
Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order (but we'll ship the whole order complete when the special blades are ready.)
Woot, ordered.
Thanks Ron. 
--------------------
"The things I make may be for others, but how I make them is for me." -Tony Konovaloff
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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I didn't get in on this in time, but I have to say that I am really enjoying reading along and am very heartened by the real sense of a community embodied here.
Well done.
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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I forgot to add that these will take a few weeks to get finished so please be patient. I don't know what the casting lead time is but I hope our deliveries are not too far apart.
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Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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It is really exciting to see the patterns come to life and the project moving along so swiftly. But I just want to put in a small plug for the Work Magazine Reprint Project which is where this project started. The plane project might be subscribed but every week there is something new and interesting and this week there is (among other things), a 2 1/2 page article on scratch beaders and a compendium of hinge information. The magazine is a free download every week.
here is the link: Issue 7 of Work Magazine
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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Absolutely! The Work reprints are always a good read and contain such a variety of topics.
Thanks for bringing them to us Joel.
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Isaac S
Member
Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 836
Loc: Doe Run, PA
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You are really making me regret not jumping on this build. As far as I'm concerned, you can't post enough of these pictures.
I can't wait to see the finished castings and ensuing planes.
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Isaac
Blackburn Tools - woodworking tools old & new
Blog
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SwedishIron
Member
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 330
Loc: Longmont, CO
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kompera said:
Ron Hock said:
This is so cool! I'm excited! Thanks to James and Joel for making it happen and a special thanks to James for sharing the whole pattern-making process. Fascinating!
We're making 30 blades for this project: 3/16" x 2-1/4" x 7", O1, HOCK logo, $40 each. There will be a small hole at the top for hanging in the heat treat oven (not shown in the above photo -- we grind it off of Konrad's blades but we're trying to keep the price of these as low as possible.)
If you want a spare blade, there may be extras available but please order only one for now to be sure everyone who needs one can get one. And there are no guarantees of future availability at this price.
Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order (but we'll ship the whole order complete when the special blades are ready.)
Woot, ordered.
Thanks Ron.
Ditto!
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"There are no rules, only tools!"
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Sundowner
Member
Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 125
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I missed the first batch, but I so want in on the next one!
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Isaac S said:
You are really making me regret not jumping on this build. As far as I'm concerned, you can't post enough of these pictures.
I can't wait to see the finished castings and ensuing planes.
+1 brazilian
.
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" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Thank you all for the kind words; you all make this so much fun!
Now for the goods...
The molding process begins with placing the pattern/matchboard in a flask. This flask is modified for vertical pouring (notice the jagged hole in the far side to pour into).
Two alignment holes on the matchboard fit over pins in the flask. This keeps everything happy and in the proper place.
Fine, oil-binding sand is sifted onto the pattern. It looks lumpy here, but that is because it's fluffed up from sifting through a sieve. Any and all sand in contact with the pattern must be sifted for a good surface finish. Sifted sand is added until the pattern is completely buried and firmly packed. Due to the possible fragile nature of this pattern, I am taking extra care to hand pack this sand. As referenced in the Work Magazine article, even ramming is essential to ensure pressure from the sand does not warp the thin pattern. After the sifted sand sufficiently buries the pattern, secondary, unsifted sand can be added and rammed until the (half of the) flask is full. This is the drag (bottom) if the mold is poured horizontally.
The flask is full and rammed, now it can be screeded flush to the top of the flask. By the way, this is all hand work- not pneumatics or machines here. I'm being extra careful. The filling and ramming is repeated for the other half to complete the mold- the cope (top).
The cope is is pulled and set aside after the mold is rolled over. Next the pattern and matchboard are very carefully lifted from the drag. Oh, before lifting, a few light taps around the edges of the matchboard loosen it enough to assist in a clean release. This is where careful finishing and consistent draft of the pattern show their merits! You may notice a little unevenness in the sand around the outer edges. This is due to my overly gentle hand ramming. The good news is that the sand around the part is uniform and firm enough. I can up the pressure in future molds a little to achieve better surface finish though.
To tell the truth, I was a little worried about two things:
1. The pattern would not release cleanly from the sand.
2. The casting would suck. 
One down!
The three trial molds are placed on the floor of the foundry to pour. The sand floor is the traditional way to contain metal spills and put out fires, plus you don't have to worry about where to put really hot things; anywhere works. It is hard on new penny loafers though. The ULCO foundry is very traditional in all ways: dark, dusty, hot,...
but effective.
Firing up the smallest furnace in the foundry. I'm only pouring about 30 lbs of material. The ingots come around 20 lbs each. Rather than cut one, we just placed two in the crucible to melt. Any extra we'll just pour in an ingot mold to save for later.
Sorry I don't have any action shots of the pour. It was just my dad and I; too many things to do to worry about getting that money shot. It all went smoothly though- no one was burned or too angry. It feels EXACTLY like the frantic energy and time requirements of a complicated glue-up.
Notice the shrink-back of metal in the sprue holes and iron ingot mold in the background.
Ahhhh, a promising plane emerging...
Concern number two vanquished!
A good representation of what the pattern gives. For anyone curious about the color, I sandblasted the castings to remove as much sand stuck to the surface.
Thanks to the vertical pour, no sacrificial boss was needed over the mouth. It's not perfect, but it's ready for a file to make it so.
Cutting the gates and channels away from the plane body. On a side note, notice the solid copper jaws in the vise. The absolute best jaws for metalworking: they grip like the dickens and don't mar work. I don't understand why vise companies supply jagged-tooth killers to ruin nice work with. These are made from a sold bar of copper (much better than copper tabbed liners the catalogs sell, if I do say so).
Freed from its bondage.
I put it to the belt sander a little to remove the gating bumps. As a note, the photo does not show too much detail, but there are small "pricklies" and minor inconsistencies in the surface of the metal, which are normal for a sand casting. I don't want anyone to expect perfection and receive reality. The metal is sound and uniform though - no voids, which is critical. The inside of the body is also in good shape. It's ready for filing and linishing- which brings us to you...
Of note, I have found a slight warp in the sole about an inch behind the mouth due to shrinkage. I need to fly cut the sole and measure its thickness to ensure it will not be too thin after proper flattening. I will let you all know what I find.
Additionally, I am in the process of making the pattern for the lever cap. I have room in the flask for a screw also. I will make a pattern for an oversized screw which can be turned to size and threaded. I don't know the details yet, Joel and I will speak some more about this.
More to come...
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Isaac S
Member
Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 836
Loc: Doe Run, PA
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Oh, this is a great thread...
You make me want to move back to Denver and come watch you work for a day or two (watching others work is much better than actually working myself).
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Isaac
Blackburn Tools - woodworking tools old & new
Blog
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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Isaac S said:
Oh, this is a great thread...
+1. The best.
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True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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imapseudonym
Member
Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1024
Loc: Burlington, VT
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--------------------
''How can we ever hope to understand atoms?'' Heisenberg had lamented that day.
''I think we may yet be able to do so,'' Bohr replied. ''But in the process we may have to learn what the word 'understanding' really means.''
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Corneel
Member
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1689
Loc: The Netherlands
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This thread delivers. With spades!
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seekelot.blogspot.com
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Amos
Member
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
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Thanks for posting the pictures and explanations; posts like yours are what make Woodnet such a great place.
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www.chesapeakewood.wordpress.com
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FordPrefect
Member
Registered: 12/17/04
Posts: 2290
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
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Sundowner said:
I missed the first batch, but I so want in on the next one!
Add me to the list... If only I hadn't cleaned out my tool fund just prior to this adventure starting up!
Well, then I wouldn't have a plow plane or a curved sawmaker's rasp on order... I need to increase the size of my tool fund! It's the only way to be sure I won't be left out in the future.
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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BaileyNo5 said:
Isaac S said:
Oh, this is a great thread...
+1. The best.
I would vote that this is the all time coolest thread EVER!
I'm geeking out over all the casting information I'm getting.
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See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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Isaac S said:
Oh, this is a great thread...
+ 2 ....... very very interesting, great job.
Steve
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mattsworld
Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 1232
Loc: Warwick, RI
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WOW....awesome. This is truly a great thread. Thank you.
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Matt
http://thesawwright.com/
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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One remaining question is what the lever cap should look like.
(all these samples come from various Norrises)
Two age appropriate lever caps. The larger one from a Norris #4, Square threaded, but with a distinctive profile to the top of the screw. With straight knurlings. This is what you find on all the higher end makers from the very late Victorian period. The smaller one has worn diagonal knurling, regular v threads (round profile Whitworths which were common at the time) and typical for lower end iron planes of the period.
A further view which also includes a flat top profile which is easy to do but more typical of the 1920's period and onward.
Just a ruler to give an idea of scale. All the screws are pointed so that as you tighten the screw on the iron you don't torque the iron laterally. This is an important feature.
While I like straight knurls I don't have a set and that would raise the price. I'm for it.
I like the large screw in the first photo, although I would use regular threads not square. If I had (or whoever makes them) an ACME tap that would be great but it's not necessary.
The lever cap screws can be made from bar stock but it might be less expensive, although more work turning to just cast them. In 360 brass we are probably talking 15-20 each, maybe a little more for knurls & etc. Don't know how much the casting would cost.
Needless to say after James works up the lever cap we can figure out the thread and needed length. Too long looks dump in my view. You want the lever cap to be roughly parellel to the blade when clamped down and the screw head sitting just about that. With no cap iron you need very, very, little clearance (although I would make sure there is space for an adjuster pin should someone want to add one).
--------------------
Joel
Tools for working Wood
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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I like the nib topped screw also. Don't care what knurling is used but prefer v threads so I don't need to try and source an ACME tap for the lever cap.
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Bob-Jones
Member
Registered: 12/26/10
Posts: 162
Loc: Hernando, MS
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Too fun. I just need 2 people to drop out and I can join in the fun ah the waiting list...
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that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you...
1 Thessalonians 4:11
my blog - thechristiantoolcabinet.wordpress.com
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mongo
Member
Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 4592
Loc: Largo, FL
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Freaking cool.... so sad I missed the first list.
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Brad
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Same here.
PLEASE put me on the wait list (if there is one) now for the next buy.
Or maybe I can buy out someone in this one?
Who's keeping the list? 
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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My vote is for the larger screw in the first photo referenced by Joel. The threading should be of a type that is easily reproduced from a stock and contemporary tap and die set, just for simplicity.
Edited by wood1351 (05/08/12 05:46 PM)
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mongo
Member
Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 4592
Loc: Largo, FL
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j Conrad is keeping the list. I m second. Need some droppouts! Or at least a second run.
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Brad
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CedarSlayer
Killer of aromatic wood
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 2633
Loc: College Station, TX
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Straight knurling is not a huge issue. If you already have a knurling tool, Enco has wheels for $13.21. If you need a full set, I personally like the entire setup from LittleMachineShop!
Bob
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toolmakingart.com
When you have eliminated all unnecessary wood, then whatever remains, however well formed, is too small to serve as originally intended.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Yes, Mongo is right, I am keeping the list.
The waitlist steadily grows, and I'm happy to add anyone interested. That said, I cannot guarantee castings to those on the waitlist until we complete the first run and I work out all the bugs. Things may change, or they may stay very much the same if a second run is issued--we'll have to see. It doesn't hurt to sign up though.
I must say, the interest in this project has blown me away. Thanks again to Joel and the Work Mag project for inspiring it! Keep reading the issues, they're fascinating.
Onto other matters (such as the castings, etc!).
I have spent some time evaluating the trial castings this afternoon. Three things have appeared as I cleaned one casting up:
- The hollow area in the sole rear of the mouth is shrinkage from a slightly non-uniform flow rate into the part through the gates. I have a great photo of the effect on the camera, but cannot load it on the computer I'm using presently. I will add two more channels/gates to the pattern to take care of that. Thankfully, the sole, even after grinding it down on the belt sander to get pretty flat, is measuring 0.140" in the thinnest area--thick enough.
- The toe of the casting is too thin for my taste after squaring it to the sole. I'm going to thicken the pattern there to account for that.
- One of my greatest fears, sand inclusions in the casting came true. It's right in the upper corner of the toe-to-sidewall. Through all of the gating, pressure relieving, sand traps, etc, some still floated it's way to the high point of the casting, where it was trapped. Thankfully, I can add some sacrificial bosses to collect any stray sand that finds its way there. The bosses don't have to be big, but they do have to be the highest point of the casting. They, and all the grimy sand they contain will be removed from the final casting.
As I make these adjustments, I'll keep you all informed. These reasons are why trials are necessary.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Oh, to remind everyone, I cannot wrangle the thread, with all of it's ins and outs to collect people who want to be added to the list.
If you want to be added to the list, you HAVE TO PM me. Please include your full name in the message.
Thanks!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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J. Conrad said:
These reasons are why trials are necessary.
...and this is why we are so fortunate to have you on this project James. You're doing amazing work and taking us along for the ride.
Much appreciated.
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Dan Miller
Member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Cape Vincent, NY
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What a great thread! As a neophyte bronze caster, I am learning a lot, and looking forward to finishing my shop so I can finish setting up my own little foundry...
Dan
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Dan Miller
Cape Vincent, NY
Wood Canoes, Timber Frames and more...
dragonflycanoe.com
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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Dan Miller said:
What a great thread! As a neophyte bronze caster, I am learning a lot, and looking forward to finishing my shop so I can finish setting up my own little foundry...
Dan
Nice to see you over here Dan; welcome to WoodNet!
Cliff Ober
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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J. Conrad said:
Oh, to remind everyone, I cannot wrangle the thread, with all of it's ins and outs to collect people who want to be added to the list.
If you want to be added to the list, you HAVE TO PM me. Please include your full name in the message.
Thanks!
James, I would highly recommend that people email you instead. The PM System here is clunky at best. And it's easy for an individual message to get lost in the mess.
It's much more reliable and if they email and include the words "SMOOTHER PROJECT" in their subject line. You can then set up an internal filter on your email client to automatically sent any mail with that subject into a special file folder. That's how I work my scraper and saw plate correspondences.
And BTW, I am following this thread with more than passing interest. This is blog worthy content if you ask me.
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Dominic, thanks for the help up the learning curve here.
I have now integrated the email of my not-yet live website with my personal email, so anyone can reach me direct through
info@sturnella.com
I will be PM-ing everyone as we move into actual ordering, so do not worry that you will be forgotten if you don't contact me. I will contact you!
Here are the photos I promised yesterday:
The void/inclusion area I discovered in the corner of the casting. As I mentioned earlier, I can avoid this with some creative adjustments to the pattern, which will not alter the end product other than making it better.
Notice how the hollow spots correspond with the areas not directly fed by a gate. My theory is that the metal begins shrinking before it reaches the gate above as the casting fills. A gate on each side here should nail that.
This is what I started a few days ago for the lever cap. It's taken directly from the Work Mag article. Of course, we can make it shapely and elegant; which will happen soon.
As for the cap screw, in my experience, 3/8-24 (national fine thread) is a good start, but I personally prefer 7/16-20 thread. If I remember correctly, the article calls for a 3/8" screw. Both sizes are easily attainable by anyone reading this; MSC, McMaster sell the taps and sized drills. I still plan to make a pattern for the screw, just for the fun of it. If it's wildly successful, we can discuss how to finish them. By the way, single-pointing the threads on the lathe is the best way to thread the screw without a doubt, but a proper diameter screw shaft can be threaded with a good die also. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Pete Pedisich
Member
Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 256
Loc: Long Island, NY
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I just emailed my boss to tell him I'll be out for the next few weeks... need more time to follow this thread!
He should be fine with it, right?
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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I don't want to be pushy, but I was wondering if there were any updates to get?
Thanks
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Pedro,
Sorry for going dark these past days. The only update of note at this moment is steady (slow?) progress on the lever cap pattern and cap screw sizing. Joel is in the process of getting me dimensions for the screw in his collection we all preferred. Once I have the dimensions necessary, I'll post progress pics for you all.
Due to graduations and family functions on the weekends, I will not be able to pour the next round until the weekend of the 26th.
By the way, I'm getting ever-so-closer to getting my website up, which will have all of this thread's info and more.
Thanks for the patience, everyone!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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No problem. I have plenty of experience with 'life getting in the way'. I am just so fascinated by the process, and anxious to get my hands on the product, that I can't sit still. Kind of like a little kid on Christmas Eve. Would you like me to leave some cookies and milk out for you?
In case I forget, thanks once again for doing this.
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Happy Saturday, everyone!
Here's a couple update images for your mental consumption:
The proposed cap screw dimensioned and scaled for casting. I plan to make a pattern of this screw and cast it with the lever cap. If it works out, I can offer some of these for sale in addition to the body and lever cap castings. Also, Joel is contemplating turning some of the screws from brass bar stock, and other members on the list have expressed interest in turning their own. This drawing can serve as a starting point for anyone who wants to make their own. Email me at info@sturnella.com if you want a better pdf drawing of the finished-size screw.
Here is a model of the plane illustrating the lever cap, screw, 3/16" iron and chunk of infill in the body. I will cast the lever cap with very little refinement so you can chamfer and adorn with decoration to your heart's content! Also, notice the cutting edge of the iron intersecting the portion of the sole just forward of the mouth. This mouth represents the purposely-undersized mouth in the casting that you can file to the perfect shaving clearance.
As I've mentioned, my weekends are a little busy right now, but I plan to be in the foundry next weekend to start cranking on castings. Sometime in the next week, I will post images of the lever cap and screw patterns.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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looks good - a couple of comments.
on the norris (see the photo posted earlier) there are a couple of v cuts n the square knurling so instead of just lines is a pattern or regular rectangles - looks great and is easy to do.
the top of the screw should be rounded over not flat (will work better)
and I am surprised you are using so fine a thread.
if you end up offering scrws for sale I probably won't as I have plenty on my plate now.
joel
--------------------
Joel
Tools for working Wood
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
on the norris (see the photo posted earlier) there are a couple of v cuts n the square knurling so instead of just lines is a pattern or regular rectangles - looks great and is easy to do.
Yes, this is what I meant by "straight knurling". After looking it up, cross knurling seems to be the better term.
Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
the top of the screw should be rounded over not flat (will work better)
Thanks for the reminder, I will update the drawing and design.
Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
and I am surprised you are using so fine a thread.
I'm in favor of fine thread for greater strength in materials such as copper alloys, but since the original was a coarser thread, we can do that (3/8-16 is pretty close). The nice thing is that there is flexibility with thread pitch on the screw, since the major diameter is the same for coarse and fine thread. Not so for the female hole in the lever cap though. Whatever the screw becomes, the cap can be drilled and tapped to match.
Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
if you end up offering scr(e)ws for sale I probably won't as I have plenty on my plate now.
We'll have to take this one a step at a time, I suppose. I'm feeling optimistic about casting and turning them, but we won't know until it's tried for this application. Good news, it's an easy part to turn from solid stock if necessary by someone out there...I think I can even manage that.
Thanks again for the great info, Joel. (I'm also integrating the Norris hollow lever cap design into the pattern as we speak).
And thanks again to everyone with your patience as we work through the details.
More to come!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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anotherBob
Member
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 253
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J. Conrad said:
And thanks again to everyone with your patience as we work through the details.
More to come!
J. Conrad, thanks again for even doing this project... don't forget to leave enough time to live while your living, the details always get worked out...
Think I remember reading somewhere that someone sometime, used 7/16-14 whitworth (sp?) threads... I've only made one lever cap screw by hand w/no lathe, it was 1/2-20 but had a good feel to the tightening. As long as there is enough meat around the location to house up to say 1/2" screw... all ought to be peachy, it's sure easier to take away than add to here...
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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Kudos to James for the patternmaking and mold making,I'm by no means an expert of pooring brass but I've talked to many who've been there and tried and the results you've shown so far are well done since I've heard time and again how hard it is to get good results pooring brass without defects and inclusions. I'm enjoying the whole post very much and I look forwards to the plane making process even more when you guys get your castings,Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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Forgot to add James it would be interesting to hear the process of purifying and preparing the metal before the pour as well,I've seen this done a couple times and you should explain how it's a more involved process then just melting down some brass in a big furnace and filling the molds. Metalurgy is pretty fascinating to see done well,Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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anotherBob said:
J. Conrad said:
And thanks again to everyone with your patience as we work through the details.
More to come!
J. Conrad, thanks again for even doing this project... don't forget to leave enough time to live while your living, the details always get worked out...
I second this notion! James, you're doing everyone a service by showing the whole process, and you're offering up a product most of us would find impossible to make or source. I'm sure that the requests for updates are good intentioned statements of how exciting this project is, and how much fun everyone has had in following along.
With regard to the screws, I know that if I happen to make it up the waitlist, I'd be in line to buy one, or else I'd need to beg a friend to mill one for me. My metalworking prowess is lackluster at best.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Hello All,
Here the latest progress:
I spent Saturday and Sunday at the foundry, ramming and pouring 12 plane bodies. I don't have all of the photos prepared yet, but here is a video of the last three castings being poured by my Pops and I. (I'm the guy controlling the pour on the "smart end" of the rig.)
WorkMag Smoother Pour
We poured in batches of six and had just enough crucible capacity (approx. 50lb) to get the six in one melt.
Notice the bright white/yellow glow; that's zinc burning off the alloy. Pouring temperature for this particular manganese bronze (actually a brass) is about 1900-1950* F. Once the zinc contacts oxygen at that temperature, it burns and releases nasty toxic fumes. Thankfully, the foundry is well ventilated, as the smoke flowing towards the camera indicates. We do add pure zinc to the melted alloy to compensate for loss; about 1-1.5% is added.
I will post photos of the new castings as soon as I clean a few up and inspect them. So far, things are looking pretty good though; the changes to the pattern have helped.
I'm also making progress on the lever cap and screw patterns and will post updates on them as well.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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That is very cool to see how that is done; thanks so much for posting this stuff!
Cliff
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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Looking very good!
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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James,
That is TOO cool!!!
Speaking of temperatures,...how hot was it inside the foundry?! We were topping out at close to 90 deg F this weekend. I could only imagine what it's like to work in a foundry on a day like that! 
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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Stwood_
Member
Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 8275
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That is soooo neat.
Maybe I'll try and get in on the next build.
--------------------
Hopefully I'll be king doodoo when the economy rebounds. Snipe Hunter 12/15/08
No freakin way.I don't want him to start baking muffins and end up like Donnie. Kaga. 12/29/09
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Blacky's Boy said:
Speaking of temperatures,...how hot was it inside the foundry?! We were topping out at close to 90 deg F this weekend. I could only imagine what it's like to work in a foundry on a day like that!
Thankfully, the weather has been mild the past few weekends. The main problem we had during the pour was wind. Saturday was brutal--I thought the world was coming apart. Sunday, when the video was shot, was almost perfect: 70degrees, 25% humidity...
Supposed to be in the 90's this weekend though.
Good news is that small pours like we're doing only last about an hour a pop. Iron pours in the summer are the killers; all day campaigns and ALL the protective clothing (unlike those guys from Enterprise Foundry pouring the LN 51's!).
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Stwood_ said:
Maybe I'll try and get in on the next build.
Shoot me an email with your name and I'll put you on the waitlist.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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This video and all the pics makes me want to move up the line SOOOO bad! Where am I on the list?
Anyone want to take $50 to let me take their spot in the Top 24 ?
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
This video and all the pics makes me want to move up the line SOOOO bad! Where am I on the list?
Anyone want to take $50 to let me take their spot in the Top 24 ?
.
How about 100$
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Alrighty, now. Here's some info on the lever cap and screw pattern(s)...
As I've hinted at and we've discussed earlier, I plan to cast some cap screw blanks oversize so they can be turned and threaded to suit with little material waste. I plan to cast some trials of these this weekend with the lever cap castings.
The screw pattern depends on the parting line passing through the center axis. The major diameter of the pattern is just shy of one inch: I've chosen a 1-1/8" diameter maple dowel, sawed, and planed the parting line to split the dowel. Next, the dowel is glued back together with a slip of paper in the joint to allow separation again after turning. The dowel is now not round in diameter, but that will turn out soon enough.
Roughing-in.
And split apart after the final turning passes.
Notice the shoulders of the turning: nothing is square or undercut. Tapered shoulders are for draft to ensure clean release from the mold. This part is purposely oversize to account for shrink and adequate cleanup, and of rough form to allow for all the final turning details in metal.
The end elements of the turning are for channels in the mold. The end of this half is trimmed with the appropriate sweep in-cannel gouge at an undercut bevel...
...to match a pouring boss. This boss is where the sprue is cut into the sand of the mold for pouring. It's a little hard to see here, but notice the grain direction in the turning. It's running vertically to minimize potential splitting in use.
The two halves back together to illustrate the parting line. Please excuse the blood blister!
I will post more photos of the screw pattern as it is mounted on the matchboard. Sorry if the methodology is not all clear yet--it will be soon. Now, it's time for the lever cap!
Joel sent me some photos of Norris lever caps and suggested I make a hollow in the underside, rather than just have a solid lever. For some reason I really like that idea. Here, I'm roughing-in a radius relief after carving out the "shield" hollow.
Again, I cannot say enough how nice this wood is to carve. Buttery.
More in-cannel gouge action: cleaning up the relief "swoop".
Carving done.
Set into the matchboard. I struggled with my process here because I wanted to avoid all detail carving and such in stinky plywood. The problem is now allowing for the radius on the top side of the lever cap. I had to adjust things here slightly because my cap pattern is too thin for this procedure.
The cap pattern only protrudes about 1/8" from the top side of the board (instead of the 1/2" I need). So I made a "scab" to give it the depth I need, plus the radius of the top of the lever cap.
See? I love glue. Don't fret about the overhangs, I'll get to those soon enough.
That's all for today, folks.
Oh, wait!
The newly-improved casting, complete with cute little buttresses at the toe (worked great!). These will be removed along with the gating bumps before I ship the goods.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Carl_Stammerjohn
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Very impressive work! Thanks for keeping us so informed.
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jgourlay
Just Promoted to troublemaker
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 9830
Loc: Houston, Texas
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Awesome!!
Why do you prefer sand, rather than lost wax, for the 'jewelry'?
--------------------
MAKE: Void your warranty, violate a user agreement, fry a circuit, blow a fuse, poke an eye out... www.makezine.com
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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Carl_Stammerjohn said:
Very impressive work! Thanks for keeping us so informed.
+ 1 .......... I have enjoyed the development, thanks for sharing. May have to jump on board some time.
Steve
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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wood1351 said:
Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
This video and all the pics makes me want to move up the line SOOOO bad! Where am I on the list?
Anyone want to take $50 to let me take their spot in the Top 24 ?
.
How about 100$
What is this? Futures commodity trading???
Since this isn't a profit venture, buying spots is probably in bad taste. Not sure what the organizers or other participants think.
.
Edited by Gregory of Sherwood Forest (06/01/12 11:36 AM)
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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James,
Glad to see it is coming along so well.
A follow up letter in the current issue of Work Magazine (#11) suggests the same mouth sacrificial piece that a poster here suggested a couple of weeks ago. Glad it is not needed.
The cover article is part one of a giant series on everything you ever wanted to know about saws but were afraid to ask.
--------------------
Joel
Tools for working Wood
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
What is this? Futures commodity trading???
Since this isn't a profit venture, buying spots is probably in bad taste. Not sure what the organizers or other participants think.
I took the smiley faces to mean the posters were just kidding.
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Same here, just wanted to be clear. I don't want to step on any toes. This is a great venture.
.
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" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jgourlay said:
Why do you prefer sand, rather than lost wax, for the 'jewelry'?
Sand is the easiest and most economical way to produce castings such as this. In truth though, investment casting ("lost wax") is not a bad option. It offers excellent tolerances and surface finish. These qualities come with a premium price though, especially in small runs such as this.
Funny you should call it "jewelry." I've been tempted to make some bling with the extras. 
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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JimBelair said:
Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
What is this? Futures commodity trading???
Since this isn't a profit venture, buying spots is probably in bad taste. Not sure what the organizers or other participants think.
I took the smiley faces to mean the posters were just kidding.
Agreed. Just for the headache and potential confusion of "musical lists", I'd prefer members just enjoy and be patient. I do see more planes in the future...
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
James,
Glad to see it is coming along so well.
A follow up letter in the current issue of Work Magazine (#11) suggests the same mouth sacrificial piece that a poster here suggested a couple of weeks ago. Glad it is not needed.
The cover article is part one of a giant series on everything you ever wanted to know about saws but were afraid to ask.
Ooo, very nice.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Phil S.
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 393
Loc: 58.4° N 134.5° W
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James wrote
Quote:
I do see more planes in the future...
I'm looking forward to that.
You have an interest in birds? Miss hearing meadowlarks - none up here.
Phil
#11 on round 2
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Phil S. said:
You have an interest in birds? Miss hearing meadowlarks - none up here.
No avid interest, really, but I truly love their call.
Wait, I lied--I do have an avid interest in bird(s) recently... I've been interested in shooting a bird that decides to begin its squawking right outside my window every morning at 4:15...
The truth is, when I was contemplating starting a little tool making venture, I wanted to do it from a place of peace and passion. The meadowlark's call is a reminder of that for me. I love it. I also admire toolmakers of yore who integrated animals into their logos and designs.
Forgive my ignorance, but where did you live and where do you hail from now?
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Phil S.
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 393
Loc: 58.4° N 134.5° W
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I grew up in Minnesota. Remember hearing meadowlarks in the fields where we played. Seems like my strongest memories are of meadowlarks in the fields around home and red-winged blackbirds in the cattails around lakes we fished. Now I'm in SE Alaska and likely will stay here. Wife was born in Ketchikan and my daughter is in school in Fairbanks. When I was a kid there were about 2 million people in MN and less than 2,000 in my home town. Now there are 6 million in the state and more than 20,000 in town. A lot of the places I used to hear meadowlarks are now subdivisions and I don't see anyone on the street I know. Hard to go back to a place the doesn't exist anymore.
Getting a bit far a field from plane making. I (and a lot of other folks) am really enjoying watching the process of creating a new tool. Keeping my fingers crossed you'll make another run.
Best regards-
Phil
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jgourlay
Just Promoted to troublemaker
Registered: 12/06/02
Posts: 9830
Loc: Houston, Texas
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J. Conrad said:
jgourlay said:
Why do you prefer sand, rather than lost wax, for the 'jewelry'?
Sand is the easiest and most economical way to produce castings such as this. In truth though, investment casting ("lost wax") is not a bad option. It offers excellent tolerances and surface finish. These qualities come with a premium price though, especially in small runs such as this.
Funny you should call it "jewelry." I've been tempted to make some bling with the extras.
I absolutely bow to your superior, indeed hereditary, experience. So I've only done lost wax because that's been more accessible. I don't have a muller, or the 'infrastructure' for sand casting. But as I have pottery kiln, and 1 off volumes, lost wax has been the thing for me.
You're inspiring me!
--------------------
MAKE: Void your warranty, violate a user agreement, fry a circuit, blow a fuse, poke an eye out... www.makezine.com
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jgourlay said:
I absolutely bow to your superior, indeed hereditary, experience. So I've only done lost wax because that's been more accessible. I don't have a muller, or the 'infrastructure' for sand casting. But as I have pottery kiln, and 1 off volumes, lost wax has been the thing for me.
No need to bow!--I'm just an avid hand tool fiend like you.
BTW, I am interested in investment processes for planes such as this in the future. Of course it will be a greater cost due to greater complexity, but some other fun alloys such as stainless may be possible...more to explore.
Thanks for the kind words.
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Time for an update!
My Love and I took this weekend with friends to escape the heat and headed to the mountains for some fishing and exploration. Sorry, but no foundry work again until next weekend...
HOWEVER, here are some photos of last weekend's progress:
Fitting up the matchplate for casting the lever caps and screws. This is a very small pattern: 6x10". The cylindrical boss in the center is the pouring point. This is a traditional horizontal pattern/mold/casting. Unfortunately, I do not have any photos of the molding process, but a hole is literally cut into the sand covering that boss with a very thin walled tube of roughly the same diameter. I placed the boss as close to center of the pattern so I could judge by eye the place in the mold to cut into the sand and hit that boss.
Two trial molds, weighted and waiting for metal.
I've been meaning to get a shot of the crucible inside the furnace. The thing sticking out is the handle to a steel skimmer. Before anything can come in contact with a hot crucible (especially one with molten metal in it) it has to be preheated to drive off any moisture and reduce thermal shock. Anything wet or cold will cause more excitement than I want from that evil bowl of fluid. This particular batch of bronze has both "virgin" and reused stuff cut off of previous castings. Any time alloys are remelted, things change a little: some elements burn-off, some oxidize more, and impurities are bound to collect. Skimming happens every pour to take off the ash, impurities and such that collect on the surface of the molten metal.
Two things I want to point out in this photo: 1. Melting some zinc in a cast iron ladle over the furnace (as the bronze is melting inside). As mentioned before, zinc is added to pours to replace the metal that burns-off during melting. We buy the purest zinc we can get in these one pound balls, but one pound is too much to add to one crucible of alloy, so melting down and dividing in two gives us the amount needed.
2. The second ladle (into which I will pour half the zinc when melted) is preheating on top of the furnace to prevent the shocking I noted above.
The lever cap and screw emerging.
There's a bit of flash, (thin metal around the edges) but that removes easily. Everything is oversized so cleanup will produce a sound screw and lever. As soon as I clean some up, I'll post photos.
And a pile of plane bodies ready to be cleaned up.
Just to catch you all up on my progress, I have about half the plane bodies cast and cleaned for the first run. I will soon have many more lever caps and screws coming to catch up. Once I have sets ready, I will begin messaging members on the list with ordering instructions.
After I turn a couple screws and work out the kinks, I will post a price for them.
Thanks all!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Stwood_
Member
Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 8275
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That's sooo neat.
Thanks for the update and pics
--------------------
Hopefully I'll be king doodoo when the economy rebounds. Snipe Hunter 12/15/08
No freakin way.I don't want him to start baking muffins and end up like Donnie. Kaga. 12/29/09
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KlausK.
Member
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1049
Loc: Stuttgart, Germany
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Hi James,
I'm not in the boat but I truly enjoy this thread! It's more than interesting and educational to follow your process. Thank you very much! Maybe you will put another boat to start. Looking your work it will be hard to resist to get into the boat!
Cheers
Klaus
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Two Lawyers Toolworks - Klaus & Pedder are making saws
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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Same hear Klaus not a buyer but much interested especially since my experience into metal casting fell somewhere between dissapointing and total failure last time. I too find the process fascinating and from the looks of things James is much more of a expert then the guy I got hooked up with and the results are looking excellent. Nice work all around and a very entertaining post. Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Stwood: It's my pleasure; this is a very fun project. I really can't wait until members get their castings and we see everyones' progress and completion.
I think it should be a requirement for those making one of these planes to post photos!
Klaus: I'm hoping there are many more boats in the harbor.
Len: Thank you for your kind words. I know you were interested in alloy properties and such. Have I answered your question(s)?
Thanks all
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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Pretty much I just thought the guys would like to see the process of skimming and any additives like the zinc,I know I learned a lot when I watched it done even though the results were not as good as yours appear to be,we had trouble with bubble like casting flaws on the sides and I suppose that from artifacts and crud we didn't get out properly. So yea you showed the stuff I was talking about and thanks it's interesting to see it done again and done better  Len
PS Anybody who collects infills will be intersted in the lever cap and cap screws since they're a pain to find let alone get,so be sure to make some extras for all my project infills I have looking for lever caps and screws
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INFILL MAGNET
Edited by LENPAM (06/10/12 09:07 PM)
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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Those are great pictures, and it looks like you are making some tremendous progress on filling all those orders. I'm glad you were the guy that jumped in to do the castings!
Well done on all counts!
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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+ 1 this is a very interesting thread and have been following it from the start.
Thanks for sharing !
Steve
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Dang, James.
The more you post about these, the more I want in the first group. This is torture.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
Dang, James.
The more you post about these, the more I want in the first group. This is torture.
.
+1
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Gee, this thread has drifted from the shallows of the hand tool forum, and is getting harder to find!
It's found now. It's getting an update. Gird yourselves.
First of all, thank you for your patience, lads. I've been silent for a few weeks as life has chugged along on its manic way. Manic? Yes, manic--I recently adopted a terrier pup who has become a full time job in his watching. Good thing he's cute, or else...
The good news is that I have been at the foundry the past two weekends making parts. The bad news is that I've been at the foundry the past two weekends: High 90's the first weekend, 103* and 104* last saturday and sunday. Brutal, to say the least. I think I drank a gallon and a half of iced tea each day to just see straight. As you all are aware, the weather has not been the most cooperative here in Colorado lately.
I'm currently preparing for a trip with my love to Oregon and will not return to the business at hand until July 9. I plan to message those of you who are in line for your plane parts to order when I return. Please remain patient, you will be messaged when it is your time.
Here are some photos of the plane body and lever cap as you will receive them. As I have noted previously, these are rough castings that require a bit of elbow grease and skill to turn into the tools of all our dreams.
The lever cap is oversize so you can file, fit and finish to your heart's content.
These guys have been taken to my belt sander to remove any serious casting flash and such. Each part is unique in its degree of finishing: some have more sanding/grinding than others, depending on how much work needed to be done. More FFF (see above) needed from you here!
The cap underside. I've taken the liberty to stamp the under/insides of these parts with my mark so auction houses know the provenance in 2140. I wonder if they'll find this thread too?
And topside. There is a dimple where the hole for the lever screw should penetrate--just an aid.
I've also stamped the inside heel of the body with my mark and plane number. In case you're wondering (you know who you are, waitlist fellas!), I don't plan to make 9,999 castings (yet!).
One last shot of the parts; in all their grubby glory.
As for the lever cap screw, the castings have been successful and I am just beginning the turning process to work out all the details. I will post photos when the time comes for something presentable to emerge. They are looking good so far though; I'm heartened to see something come of them.
Also, you're probably wondering where I stand on completion of the original list. To be honest, it has been a challenging project for one critical reason: logistics. Time and space seem to be working against me, so I'm not as far as I would like to be at this point. The good news is that planes are ready to ship--just not all of the 24 on the list. Please remain patient as I work through the obstacles. It will only get better--I'm dedicated to that.
Take care and stay cool, all!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Amos
Member
Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 541
Loc: Chesapeake, VA
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Thanks for the update and the pictures.
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www.chesapeakewood.wordpress.com
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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Great looking plane body and cap! I commend you for braving the brutal temps, but remember to stay safe. We can wait (although some of our comments may belie otherwise ).
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AmosB
Member
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Oklahoma
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Thanks for the update James. I know it is hard work, but you appear to be enjoying it. I have enjoyed following and have learned more about casting than I thought there was. Enjoy the coast and we will hope the fires are contained when you return.
Amos
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imapseudonym
Member
Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1024
Loc: Burlington, VT
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Thanks for the update.
Enjoy your trip!
--------------------
''How can we ever hope to understand atoms?'' Heisenberg had lamented that day.
''I think we may yet be able to do so,'' Bohr replied. ''But in the process we may have to learn what the word 'understanding' really means.''
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Bibliophile 13
Moderator
Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 7074
Loc: South Alabama
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We should probably save your information somewhere more stable. Threads expire after a year here. I'd be happy to archive the photos/text on my blog. I don't think I could archive all the replies, but at least the build-along information would be saved.
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Steve S.
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Tradition cannot be inherited, and if you want it you must obtain it by great labour.
- T. S. Eliot
Tutorials and Build-Alongs at The Literary Workshop
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Bibliophile 13 said:
We should probably save your information somewhere more stable. Threads expire after a year here. I'd be happy to archive the photos/text on my blog. I don't think I could archive all the replies, but at least the build-along information would be saved.
Steve - Your idea is a good one; thank you for your offer! I am in the process of building my website, but it has been slow as well. I do plan to duplicate the essence of this thread in my soon-in-coming blog on the site.
I'm also working on more videos of the project's processes to supplement what we have here.
Any requests for subjects herein to video, folks?
As a heads-up, I have a detailed vid of the complete molding of a screw and lever, complete with captions, etc. in the works as I write this. If it's helpful, I want to do more.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Thanks, fellas. I'm packed and reddy to freddy. (As my uncle says.)
It'll be great!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Stwood_
Member
Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 8275
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Stay cool.
--------------------
Hopefully I'll be king doodoo when the economy rebounds. Snipe Hunter 12/15/08
No freakin way.I don't want him to start baking muffins and end up like Donnie. Kaga. 12/29/09
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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I am sitting in a jury panel room waiting for the lawyers to come back in the room and I was reading the new issue of work magazine. For those of you who think this smoother project is too easy the current issue has plans for building what looks like a clone of an early, adjustable, Stanley block plane.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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AmosB
Member
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Oklahoma
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I was wondering if that block plane would come up as another project idea. A tad bit more complex.
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dogwood1300
Member
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: Cary, NC
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A chariot plane may be a better next project (the old-tool list had a project about
10 years ago)
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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The same issue of work that had the smooth plane that we are building also has a chariot plane. later issues that haven't been republished yet have rebate planes (and maybe more stuff I haven't noticed yet - I have enough trouble keeping up with the republished issues)
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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My vote would be for a miter (mitre) plane next. But what do I know.
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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PedroOhare said:
My vote would be for a miter (mitre) plane next. But what do I know.
Pedro
+ a brazillion!
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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PedroOhare said:
My vote would be for a miter (mitre) plane next. But what do I know.
I'd be interested if it were skewed...
Cliff
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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As one at the top of the waiting list, I would vote for another smoother, but obviously everyone lucky enough to get in this time would vote against that.
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John
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Hmmm. I'm on the waitlist also, but I think I would also prefer a mitre plane. I'd like a large one, skewed.
Of course, now I'm so jacked for making one of these planes, I don't care what it is, I'm in!
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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FordPrefect
Member
Registered: 12/17/04
Posts: 2290
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
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I am also on the waiting list and I am now torn between a smoother or miter... Miter wouldn't have to be skewed but it would be a better addition to my arsenal than a smoother or chariot plane.
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AmosB
Member
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Oklahoma
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I am on the next list too. I think we are getting ahead of the project, picking different planes now. If the first and second batches work out, then would be a good time to see if he is up to pattern making etc. for a different plane.
I would like to make several different planes too, but I'll wait until he asks for suggestions...just saying
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Archengine
Member
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 400
Loc: Frankfort Ky
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I'm on the list too, and hope he turns out several batches of smoothers. Can never have too many.
Rob
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Hi Folks,
Sorry for the silence these past days. I've been back from vacation for a week now, spending my time at my day job mending all the mistakes made by my shop crew while I was away!
Since returning, a couple critical items have arisen with this project: one bad, one (potentially) good. As everyone on the initial build list knows (because I contacted them directly already), I have encountered a major flaw in the body castings I have made thus far. I am pasting the summary below, so everyone has the same info, but the short of it is that I am altering my course of action to both fulfill the initial list obligations in a timely and quality fashion.
Here's the info I've dispersed thus far:
The bad news: I've just uncovered some previously undetected problems in the castings. Shortly after returning from vacation, I decided to face mill the soles of a few of the castings I was happy with. I was (and am!) sorry to say that I uncovered inclusions in every casting just under the surface of the sole. I believe these flaws may be caused by the type of sand I'm using and/or erosion of the gates during the pour, due to turbulence in the molten metal. It's a shame, because the casting as a whole is fine, but some additional excavation needed to flatten the sole has revealed the fatal flaw. I'm pretty bummed about this because I've pushed hard to get these done for people like you who truly care and have an interest in the process. The hard truth is that this is a challenging casting for the process I'm working with and I simply do not have the time to start from square-one on my own again. One redeeming feature is that the knowledge and interest generated by the project is invaluable, no matter what the present situation holds.
Now for the good news: since the beginning of the project, I've been in discussions with a great little foundry in Connecticut because their capacity and ability to produce the volume of castings desired. We've recently talked about all the issues I've been having with my castings, and they think they have solutions for all my concerns through their unique processes. I'm currently producing a production-grade pattern for them. They will be able to begin pouring near the end of August, and parts will be shipped by September if all goes as planned. I know, as do you, that this is a pretty big delay because I had planned to begin shipping castings last week. I'm grateful I caught the flaw before folks like yourself received them and found my booboos for me though. That would have been doubly-disheartening.
As stated, I have sent the above info to everyone on the initial list. I am relieved and very grateful for the replies I have received. Every response can be summarized with "I'm with you on this...No rush or pressure...I'm still interested and can wait..."
Thank you all for your kindness and understanding!
Since I do not have the time to respond to every email individually, I want to address here the questions raised:
Will the price change for the initial run?
No, I am sticking to the price I quoted for this run of 24 orders. That said, all planes afterward (including waitlist orders) will be slightly more so it can justify my time.
What about the lever cap and screw?
These two parts are fine. The caps are ready to ship, but it won't serve anybody to do that now, without the rest of the parts. I am still working on the screws and feel good about that progress. That said, I have not had the time to finish them since turning a trial screw just before vacation, due to the setback in the body castings. I'll keep you posted with progressions there.
Is the body casting sound? Is it just an aesthetic issue?
Yes, and yes.
Will the casting still work functionally?
It should have no problem planing wood, it will just have holes in the sole, which vary in size from pinhead to peppercorn. All holes are not very deep, maybe 0.060" at the deepest. I guess those holes would fill with mutton tallow or the like, making a self-lubing plane...hmmmm. I hold a high standard though--I wouldn't pay for a casting of the present quality. And if I remember correctly, the author of the Work Magazine article would agree.
Will the new castings being made at the new foundry be dimensionally different--as in fitting the Hock blade I ordered?
The new castings will be identical in all regards to the current castings, barring the defects of course. Same design, just a more stout pattern in aluminum.
Will I have to order my parts directly from the foundry making them now?
No, they are contracting with me. You will still work through me for ordering and all other details.
I do not have a photo of the flawed part at the moment (too sad for me to photograph, perhaps?). Maybe, once we taste a little success, I can have this setback properly documented and compared to the new castings. If all goes well with the new foundry, I will be able to handle everyone on the waitlist and more for orders. In the future, I may also have the time I want and need to develop patterns for new types of planes, instead of molding and pouring hot metal. One step at a time though, keep your fingers crossed!
I did spend this previous weekend at the foundry casting four aluminum parts for the production pattern. More on that to come...
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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I feel for ya this was my experience also with my one and only forray into casting infill bodies. It is a real let down to find the flaws after thinking you've done it and all is well,but keep on with it since you have a lot more experience then I or my cohort had when we tried. A nice infill is worth waiting a little while for anyways Len
--------------------
INFILL MAGNET
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anotherBob
Member
Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 253
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James, Really sorry for your setback with all the effort you have put into this project so far. Again, thanks for your transparency and documentation of the milestones... kudos-maximus!
You can still put me in for one of the "originals" if you want/will... I'm not afraid of a few "pinhead to peppercorn sized imperfections". Worst case... I'd put a steel sole on that puppy and tap dance with it till the cows come home...
Edited by anotherBob (07/17/12 09:07 PM)
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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************************************************
Will the casting still work functionally?
It should have no problem planing wood, it will just have holes in the sole, which vary in size from pinhead to peppercorn. All holes are not very deep, maybe 0.060" at the deepest. I guess those holes would fill with mutton tallow or the like, making a self-lubing plane...hmmmm. I hold a high standard though--I wouldn't pay for a casting of the present quality. And if I remember correctly, the author of the Work Magazine article would agree.
************************************************
I can think of two fairly reasonable ways to salvage those castings:
1) Fill the holes with epoxy
2) Fill with silver solder
The silver solder approach risks warping the casting due to heat, but if done carefully it could probably be done with success.
Cliff
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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The issue of Work Magazine that came out today (in addition to having a cover article by the great David Denning on making a mitre jack) has a article on making an iron rebate plane. I don't know if there is a mitre plane in the series, possible not as by 1889 mitre planes were pretty passe and not very popular, and I don't know about a shoulder plane either - but I think since the pattern is similar to a rebate plane there might be hope.
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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John Walkowiak
Member
Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 89
Loc: Mpls. MN
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Virtually all, or at least the best, cast brass or bronze infilled planes of old had steel soles sweated onto the bottoms. There were good reasons for this extra step. Perhaps the new found 'flaws" could be an incentive to look into the process of adding a steel sole to this build.
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thedutchtouch
Grey Matter of Cast Iron
Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 327
Loc: Chicago, IL
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i have been following this thread with great interest, and while i wish there were a few plane builds started, i applaud you for not sending out an inferior product. the world needs more group buys and people like this/you
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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thedutchtouch said:
i have been following this thread with great interest, and while i wish there were a few plane builds started, i applaud you for not sending out an inferior product. the world needs more group buys and people like this/you
+ 1
Steve
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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Blades Away!
We shipped them earlier this week (mostly by Priority Mail) so most of you should have them by now. If you don't have yours by, say, Tuesday, drop a line and we'll see what's what.
There are several more available. Same deal: $40 each. Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order to save money on S&H.
I know it's frustrating to have the blade without the casting but be patient, grasshoppers. In the meantime you can practice sharpening...
Good luck to all with this very cool project!
--------------------
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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kompera
Member
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2610
Loc: Boston, MA
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Ron Hock said:
Blades Away!
We shipped them earlier this week (mostly by Priority Mail) so most of you should have them by now. If you don't have yours by, say, Tuesday, drop a line and we'll see what's what.
There are several more available. Same deal: $40 each. Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order to save money on S&H.
I know it's frustrating to have the blade without the casting but be patient, grasshoppers. In the meantime you can practice sharpening...
Good luck to all with this very cool project!
Hey Ron, got mine today and went looking for this thread... thanks!
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"The things I make may be for others, but how I make them is for me." -Tony Konovaloff
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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kompera said:
Ron Hock said:
Blades Away!
We shipped them earlier this week (mostly by Priority Mail) so most of you should have them by now. If you don't have yours by, say, Tuesday, drop a line and we'll see what's what.
There are several more available. Same deal: $40 each. Please use the shopping cart ("Buy Now") from this link: http://www.hocktools.com/CI.htm. We charge $10 per order for S&H so if you want other blades along with this one add them to the order to save money on S&H.
I know it's frustrating to have the blade without the casting but be patient, grasshoppers. In the meantime you can practice sharpening...
Good luck to all with this very cool project!
Hey Ron, got mine today and went looking for this thread... thanks!
I didn't get in on the smoother order, but wanted to say Kudos to Ron for making the blades for a small run. You sir are a class act.
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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wood1351
Member
Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 388
Loc: Puget Sound
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I received my blade yesterday. Beautiful iron. I can't wait to put it in the cast smoother! Thanks Ron!
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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I haven't checked the thread in a few weeks. Bummer news, but not a big deal in my mind. (Other than the extra work and frustration on your end) Everyone will eventually get what they originally envisioned.
Waiting patiently atop the next list.
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John
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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It's been some time since my last post, and much has happened to share with you all. I'm happy(!) to report that all of it is good news so far.
I do want to let you know that this project is at the forefront of my thinking and effort, even as I moved to a new house and went on a couple small trips. The last trip, which I returned from last night, was to the foundry in Connecticut that I will have cast the planes.
It is a very small and comfortable feeling place; if comfort is possible in a foundry. Truthfully, this was the first time I visited the inner workings of Mystic River Foundry, but I have heard nothing but good words about the operation from those I respect in the industrial arts, and after the visit, feel good about the decision to work with them.
Sher, Dave (right) and I discussing the details of their molding techniques and my requirements for the castings. The two of them seem to make the place hum with the spirit of craftspeople--the more I learned of them, the more I liked. Oh, by the way, is this the first time you've seen my mug? Looking like a hairy addition to the Madonna and Child ensemble, if you ask me.
After a trial pour and approval from me of the first article casting, they will begin making the castings necessary for all of you who are waiting. I will keep you informed of the timeline as this progresses.
Now a little about the pattern I produced for them:
The original wood pattern I showcased here had two drawbacks for larger volume runs: 1. As good as the wood is for a few rammings, it shows its battle scars without hesitation--in other words, durability is an issue, especially with the shape of this plane body. 2. It's only one part per mold. That's a lot of sand to sift and shovel for each plane. Brutal.
I made a new master pattern almost identical to the first pattern, except in one vital way. It had double the shrink rate enlargement calculated for its dimensions. I did this because I cast the above four aluminum pattern parts from it. These each shrank, but remained just a little oversized so the final bronze parts can be cast from them. Notice all the spots and stuff in them. These are normal low spots caused by the sand variations in casting, which are typically machined or abraded away. After hours and hours of hand finishing and sanding, I could not afford to completely remove them, due to the critical dimensions I needed to hold.
To remedy this, modern material science to the rescue: high-build epoxy primer. Nasty and expensive stuff, but boy does it work! A coat of this goop, sanded flat, begins to level and fill any uneven surfaces. Another coat and sanding finishes the foundational work.
After two coats of lacquer, and final smoothing, they are adhered to a match board.
Four planes per mold: much more efficient! Notice how there is no gating or channels built into this pattern. Typically, these are included to speed the molding process, but upon direction from the foundry, I have kept them out. They will cut them directly into the sand of the drag (bottom) and cope (top) when they ram the mold. This allows them the flexibility to add special screens or other precautions to ensure clean castings without serious voids or pits. This plate is also purposefully oversize and without alignment holes. They will size these critical elements directly from the flasks they use.
I am in the process of creating the lever cap pattern for them at this time. As fun as it was to fly out and hand-deliver the first pattern, I think I'll just drop it in a box and rely on the boys in brown to get it there. Photos of it will be coming soon. Stay tuned!
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gibraltor
Member
Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 157
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James,
The length and depth to which you will go to accomplish this task never ceases to amaze me! Thank you for your, as usual, well documented endeavors. I have to say, however, that all these hidden roadblocks have certainly cost you some time, effort, and, I'm sure, money.
I hope that we here at Woodnet appreciate that, and that you find a way to make this worthwhile for you financially. We want to have a reason for you to continue the creation of these castings for all of those who did not make it into the first round of selection!
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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Impressive!!
I love watching a pattern maker at work.
Thanks again for the comprehensive and well written update.
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See ya around,
Dominic
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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I never really appreciated what a pattern maker did until I started following this post. Thanks for the update!
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True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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kompera
Member
Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 2610
Loc: Boston, MA
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<3
Thanks for the update!
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"The things I make may be for others, but how I make them is for me." -Tony Konovaloff
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PAwoodhacker
Member
Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Harrisburg, PA
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Wow.
btw, those of us on the wait list looking in are sure hoping for a second run.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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PAwoodhacker said:
Wow.
btw, those of us on the wait list looking in are sure hoping for a second run.
If everything goes as planned, there will be kits available for everyone, including those on the waitlist (and then some!)
Keep your fingers crossed...
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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dogwood1300
Member
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 725
Loc: Cary, NC
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J. Conrad said:
If everything goes as planned, there will be kits available for everyone, including those on the waitlist (and then some!)
Keep your fingers crossed...
May I ask if one can still make the plane without, say, a milling machine; thus he can only use file, rasp, sand paper?
TIA
Pinwu
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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dogwood1300 said:
May I ask if one can still make the plane without, say, a milling machine; thus he can only use file, rasp, sand paper?
Yes, that has been one of the guiding priciples of this project. I want it to be acessible to anyone willing to put in some effort. Of course, a milling machine will speed up a few processes, but nothing involved requires machinery as an absolute; just elbow grease and persistence. The mouth is cast open, but undersize so it can be filed to fit. I try to remove as much material for you with machinery so lapping the sole and finishing the sides will not be an impossible task.
For the metal, files and sandpaper, plus a drill and tap for the lever cap make it doable.
On another note, I recieved my iron from Ron yesterday. Two words: beee-utiful! I placed it in one of my castings here and it looks like it grew there. I'm happy with the look and proportions.
Nice work, Ron!
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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J. Conrad said:
On another note, I recieved my iron from Ron yesterday. Two words: beee-utiful! I placed it in one of my castings here and it looks like it grew there. I'm happy with the look and proportions.
Nice work, Ron!
Um, you have been here long enough to know better. Does 'no pics, no gloat' sound familiar to you?
Pedro
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If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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PedroOhare said:
Um, you have been here long enough to know better. Does 'no pics, no gloat' sound familiar to you?
Ok, ok. Just for you...
Like the Irwin screwdriver handle/rear infill?
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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J. Conrad said:
PedroOhare said:
Um, you have been here long enough to know better. Does 'no pics, no gloat' sound familiar to you?
Ok, ok. Just for you...
Like the Irwin screwdriver handle/rear infill?
With the screwdriver handle, now it's looking like something I would make
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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J. Conrad said:
PedroOhare said:
Um, you have been here long enough to know better. Does 'no pics, no gloat' sound familiar to you?
Ok, ok. Just for you...
Like the Irwin screwdriver handle/rear infill?
Much better. And yes, it Is beautiful!!
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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doobes
Member
Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 2326
Loc: Northern VA
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Just sent a PM to get on the list!
Great effort.
Thanks
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Hi folks,
I just received the first article castings from the foundry Friday. Promising!
A couple things need to be tweaked, but I'm happy with the results. I plan to work the castings a little to check for and potential flaws, but they look more promising so far. Some belt grinding of the sides and a cut off the sole with the mill will tell me what I need to know.
I'd post photos for everyone, but I need to respect the agreement I have with the foundry and wait until I pay for them...
Good things on the horizon!
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Stwood_
Member
Registered: 09/30/03
Posts: 8275
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Sounds good.
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Hopefully I'll be king doodoo when the economy rebounds. Snipe Hunter 12/15/08
No freakin way.I don't want him to start baking muffins and end up like Donnie. Kaga. 12/29/09
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merrick
Member
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 263
Loc: ABQ, NM
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bump - any updates?
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"Most assuredly, I say to you, he that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" --John 5:24
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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I'm curious too. Particularly, on the timeline for those of us waiting for round 2, however imprecise it may be at this point.
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John
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jnesmith said:
I'm curious too. Particularly, on the timeline for those of us waiting for round 2, however imprecise it may be at this point.
I apologize for the silence lately. There has not been drastic progress at this point from the foundry. As mentioned, they did get some trial castings to me, but there are some bugs to still work out. The main issue is shrinkage on the interior of the casting around the mouth. It's not a fatal flaw, but will make truing and fitting the stuffing pretty tough on everyone. They plan to re-pour some trials with adjustments in the riser locations which should mediate the shrinkage. Otherwise, the castings look good and are free of the terrible pitting I had. For what it's worth, I escaped the shrinkage problems with my original pattern design, but we already know the pitfalls I encountered (pun intended).
I told the foundry owner on the phone yesterday that we are all eager to see this through. Once she gets the casting I (we) want, she can do the quantities needed to get castings to everyone waiting in short time, including the waitlist.
All of the above said, I believe it will be another 2-4 weeks before castings head my way. That is, if we get the problems solved adequately!
Thanks for the patience, folks!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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Thanks for keeping usinformed.
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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J. Conrad said:
Once she gets the casting I (we) want, she can do the quantities needed to get castings to everyone waiting in short time, including the waitlist .
Now THAT is some good news!
Thanks for the work you are doing.
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John
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tim_leo
Member
Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 323
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I get the feeling this turned into a much larger project than was originally expected. Regardless, Thanks for taking us with you on the journey. I know I learned a lot and have a much greater appreciation for the level of effort involved.
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Martin S.
Honored Veteran
Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 3667
Loc: 777 Right Seat
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James was kind enough to let me on the wait list today.
This should be a fun project.
--------------------
...Naval Aviators, that had balz made of brass and the size of bowling balls, getting shot off the deck at night, in heavy seas, hoping that when they leave the deck that the ship is pointed towards the sky and not the water.
AD1 T. O. Cronkhite
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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Any "new" news? Just checking in.
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John
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jnesmith said:
Any "new" news? Just checking in.
The waiting game continues. The foundry has had some trouble with shrink in certain areas of the casting (manganese bronze is notorious for this), which I may have mentioned earlier. They have been trying variations in their mold layout to account for it, but we're still not there. I just recieved a couple more samples; while they are adequate, I'm pushing them as much as I can to get the casting true so the finishing and fitting work for all of us is reduced as much as possible.
Rest assured, as soon as we are ready to go, you will see it loudly.
Thanks for keeping those fingers crossed, everyone!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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hbmcc
Member
Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 118
Loc: Seattle area, Washington State
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This has been a really fascinating project to follow! It is painful to witness the frustrations, even when just now finding this thread. BTW, I emailed a request today. I have been searching for just this type of build for a year.
I grew up sifting sand in my yard with magnets for iron carried in smoke from the CF&I plant in Pueblo, CO. My dad worked there.
Later, I worked a 12-hour shift producing ordinance hand-holds for the Vietnam War. Die cast. Only 800-degrees, but blistering summer heat and humidity in Iowa. Sub-zero winter was perfect.
I bet James wanted winter this last summer!
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Chuck Nickerson
Member
Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 406
Loc: Suburb of Los Angeles
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I've been following this as someone who's waitlisted for the next batch.
I have a MUCH greater appreciation for why the things cost so dang much money.
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merrick
Member
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 263
Loc: ABQ, NM
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Bump...hoping to see it before Christmas
--------------------
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" --John 5:24
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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merrick said:
Bump...hoping to see it before Christmas
+1. Certainly would be nice to get an update at least.......
--------------------
True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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BaileyNo5 said:
merrick said:
Bump...hoping to see it before Christmas
+1. Certainly would be nice to get an update at least.......
+2
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John
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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James has only posted twice in the last 3 1/2 months. He must have some other pressing matters right now.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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Chuck Nickerson
Member
Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 406
Loc: Suburb of Los Angeles
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I view this as an object lesson on why infills are so expensive.
Things look easy is you don't actually have to do them.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Well, hello again fellow 'netters.
I am painfully aware of how silent I have been throughout the past few months. The good news is that's the bad news.
I have been (yes, slowly) moving ahead in both the media and physical realms. The truth is that the physical realm has trumped communication recently, so today I barred myself from any other projects, including holiday gifts (yikes!), stayed in my comfy clothes, and cranked through some content on my blog.
The most recent post is where we stand with the project today, in this moment. Once you read the post, you will understand why the pattern is in FedEx's hands.
Additionally, I have archived and posted the project info from this thread for posterity's sake. Feel free to browse, although the site is under construction as I write this.
I agree, this project has been, and continues to be a lot of work. I'm enjoying all of it though, so please do not worry. To tell the truth, I'm working hard to make this last and grow beyond what we see here today.
I welcome any and all feedback, so let me have it!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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An update!!!
I read the blog post. Interesting. Are you considering an adjustable mouth?
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest said:
I read the blog post. Interesting. Are you considering an adjustable mouth?
I don't think we're gonna get that sexy on a plane such as this. You can if you want though. Mess with your casting I mean, not get sexy on us.
No, it's purely foundry functionality.
Peter from Melbourne had posted a photo and link to a Stanley no. 4 casting he had with the same solution I'm shooting for. Here's the link.
Thanks again, Peter!
I didn't have the warp problem with the castings I poured because I fed the void for the part in multiple areas, uniformly through multiple gates. The new foundry is doing it very differently. They have one gate (which helps with the sand erosion issues I was having) at the heel of the sole and one or two exits for the metal near the mouth. So, that said, I had no problem with the mouth being a spot where no metal flowed, but these new castings are not immune to that problem. I guess the best way to put it is, imagine damming a stream, but only in the middle, allowing water to rush around the edges. Water is backed up behind the dam, and anything but backed up at the edges. Of course there's going to be problems! Fluid dynamics, James!
The pattern has now been altered to allow an avenue over the top of the dam, so to speak.
I plan to have a tele call tomorrow with the foundry, now that they have the pattern again, and hope they can fire up a furnace and get one more trial pour complete by the end of the week. Once those planes come out, we'll know if my hypothesis stands or not.
Life has now slowed down a little with the Holidays over, so feel free to post any questions etc. and I'll do my best to keep everyone up to speed.
If you missed it before, here's the blog entry investigating the castings and pattern.
Just for curiosity's sake, I did some work on the mouth of one of the better castings from the foundry a couple nights ago.
No, not blood. Indicator dye to gauge my filing.
I had already milled the hump out of the thick section of the sole where the "frog" will live as much as I dared without wrecking the casting completely (bright area). Now, notice the nasty warp of the edges/faces just above and below that area. Bad news for everyone. I was able to file this out in the mouth, but it was much more work than it should be and WAY too risky a maneuver for making the casting functional. Even if that was pulled off ok, the back edge/face of that piece is untouchable with anything short of more milling. Yuck.
The short of the story is that I'm very happy nobody has received these castings to work on. We'd all start looking for the pooper scooper in hopes of doing something more rewarding instead...
Keep those fingers crossed!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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I get it. I was just thinking that if you only pour one side of the mouth with the body, it might make some of the problem go away by reducing your pour issue. Having a separate casting for the mouth adjustment plate would be easy.
Of course, I'm no foundry expert.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Approx. 2 week bump.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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Rodneywt1180b
Member
Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Centralia, WA
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Just wanted to say I read this thread earlier today. I took a foundry course in college about 25 years ago and enjoyed it though I never pursued it further and never tackled anything as advanced as that plane body. It makes me want to do it some more. Very interesting read, I've enjoyed it very much and am eagerly waiting for the planes to ship and people to start assembling them. Should be a lot of fun seeing what each individual comes up with given the same starting point.
Rodney
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Curmudgeon in training
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lightwood
Member
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 142
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J. Conrad said:
..........
No, it's purely foundry functionality.
Peter from Melbourne had posted a photo and link to a Stanley no. 4 casting he had with the same solution I'm shooting for. Here's the link.
Thanks again, Peter!
James,
happy to help.
Did you see this post from Conrad on his blog?
Sauer & Steiner
It made perfect sense to me....and here is someone else it made sense to...that's three of us!
Regards,
Peter
..no longer in Melbourne,
now in Main Ridge, VIC
Australia.
Edited by lightwood (01/20/13 11:00 PM)
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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lightwood said:
Did you see this post from Conrad on his blog?
Sauer & Steiner
It made perfect sense to me....
Regards,
Peter
..no longer in Melbourne,
now in Main Ridge, VIC
Australia.
Thanks for posting that, lightwood. I read through his blog post on working with castings......looks like we have our work cut out for us when we get these in our grubby mitts. It will be interesting to collaborate together to come up with solutions!
--------------------
True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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I'm home sick nursing my chest, my throat, my nasal cavities...so time for and update!
Quote:
James,
happy to help.
Did you see this post from Conrad on his blog?
It made perfect sense to me....and here is someone else it made sense to...that's three of us!
Great info from Konrad--I did read his post. I agree that a casting does not offer high-tolerance surfaces right out of the sand, but the good news with our plane is the relative simplicity compared to his bullnose specimens. No blind holes to file down into like he has.
Here's what we have for the mouth "bridge":
This so-called "bridge" will be removed by me on the mill when I face the sole, so don't freak about filing it off, friends!
I just received these last week. Unfortunately, this fix did not solve the warp issue. I'm really wondering if it's a pouring issue now. I spoke with the foundry and they are going to move the risers (located on the "bridge" in the photo) to the toe area of the sole to get them away from the problem spot.
It could also be a quality of the alloy I am trying to make these from. Shrinkage could be the final culprit. I'm having them pour some others in silicone bronze to test this hypothesis also.
It's a toss-up right now; we'll see.
Once we get the castings up to snuff, I plan to go through a build and outline on my blog the steps, tricks and sticky-points encountered. Most of all though, I look forward to the collaboration from others and the group problem-solving we can muster.
Take care.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Approx 2 week bump.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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mike9
Member
Registered: 04/18/11
Posts: 308
Loc: troy,ny
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The wait continues . I got lucky and got a spot on the list from swap and sell. I have some nice chunks of olive wood drying for this project. I was very impressed by the iron hock made, its beautiful.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Yes indeed. The wait continues. It may seem that I am holding this project back, but rest assured, I am in the same boat as everyone else--sitting on my hands waiting for the foundry to get their process down and parts to me/you.
So, an update is due. After ALL of my reworking, theorizing and dreaming of solutions to the warp/hump/bump/thud/turd problem, it turns out some steps of the molding process are the prime suspects now. This has been very frustrating for me to learn. I have invested so much time trying to make everything work for the foundry for almost six months since I gave them the pattern for the plane bodies. They never thought to look at the sand after pulling the pattern after ramming to see how the impression fared. To be fair, I didn't think to ask them to do that either (I assumed they were...)
The problem occurs when they vibrate the pattern to release it from the sand. This is probably due to the tall vs. thin cross section of the plane bodies. My theory is that the vibration needed to loosen the pattern rattles the walls of the bodies to an exaggerated degree, therefore shifting the sand on the interior away from the center sole area and into the corners of the edges. I have never released patterns in this way (I always tap them with a dead-blow around the perimeter) so I didn't know the molder was doing that. After much discussion, they have spent the past two weeks working on alternative molding techniques to release the pattern without vibrating to no avail. Crap. Four plane bodies on one board with minimal draft on the side walls is just to tricky.
THAT'S THE BAD NEWS.
Now for the GOOD NEWS!
I had a little epiphany of "brute force and stupidity." As one of my coworkers says. The saving grace of these parts are that they are cast from a ductile and formable alloy versus something brittle like grey iron. I pounded the warp out. The material is over-thick form the molding flaw, so with the casting in a jig to control how much I form it, I hit it with the largest hammer I own on the inside, and...voila!
Straight and flat on the inside.
Rolling hills on the outside.
Now I got the warp where I want it! 0.050" proud.
Mill it off. I have to mill the soles anyway, so this really doesn't add a huge burden to the process.
The one, critical holdup is the mouth clearance. Too large. It measures exactly 3/16" at its widest, which after filing and fitting, does not cut the mustard for a smoother-- as all good hand tool users know.
So, once again, the ball returns to my court to continue the volley. The foundry is sending back the pattern, again, so I can tighten-up the mouths to accomodate the hammering and milling.
Stay tuned...
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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barryvabeach
Member
Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1205
Loc: Va Beach VA
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James, I don't want to jinx it, but seems like you are on the right path now.
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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J. Conrad said:
Now for the GOOD NEWS!
I had a little epiphany of "brute force and stupidity." As one of my coworkers says. The saving grace of these parts are that they are cast from a ductile and formable alloy versus something brittle like grey iron. I pounded the warp out. The material is over-thick form the molding flaw, so with the casting in a jig to control how much I form it, I hit it with the largest hammer I own on the inside, and...voila!
Stay tuned...
Bravo! I see light at the far end of a long tunnel! And I'm quite sure it's not one of your father's re-furbished locomotives.
--------------------
True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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I"m on the "wait list" but I have to say that even if I don't end up with one of the bodies, this continues to be a fascinating thread to read. I've really learned a lot - thanks for sharing the detail and posting photos.
--------------------
Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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I'm on the wait list also, but I'm really hoping this works out, and that enough are made available. It is a fascinating process and I appreciate all the info and instruction.
Heck, that's why I bump it every couple weeks.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Thanks for the cheers, fellas. I really appreciate your interest--you have made sticking-out the rough patches of this project all the worthwhile!
Oh, I forgot to mention it earlier. Check out my new blog post.
It's short, but worth the visit.
-J
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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AmosB
Member
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Oklahoma
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Hi James,
How is all this casting work doing you financially? Are you going to need to raise the price some? Just seems like an awful lot of work to me.
I am really enjoying the trip down "Casting Lane."
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Sundowner
Member
Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 125
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AmosB said:
Hi James,
How is all this casting work doing you financially? Are you going to need to raise the price some? Just seems like an awful lot of work to me.
I am really enjoying the trip down "Casting Lane."
the way this thing is going, and the interest vested, it might not be a bad idea to try a Kickstarter fundraiser. I'd certainly throw a few bucks to get an up-and-coming toolmaker funded. Lie-Nielsen started with a single plane, too.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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This project has been some financial investment, but nothing insane (I know because I just finished my taxes...)
I'm actually not too worried about the investment side; it's the time needed to make something to my standard that's the killer. If only I could break the gold plated-lead handcuffs of my day job. Not yet at least.
Maybe more "sick" days?
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Hello all,
I just want to let you all know that some progress is being made. The foundry just received the pattern from me and will do (another) test pour this week if all goes according to plan. I spent a few days reworking the pattern to close up the mouths on each body. I documented the process and will be posting a new entry on my blog as soon as the castings arrive. In addition to the foundry and myself, it's been quite the journey for everyone, thanks for your patience.
Let's hope this does it!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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dave brown
Dances with wood chips in his beer
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2551
Loc: Gtown, Maryland
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I'm hoping that with all of this extra work, you'll want to do at least one more production run to help recoup your investment.
Is there a "second run" wait list?
--------------------
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Benjamin Franklin
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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How did the test pour go?
--------------------
John
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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Nothing new on his blog yet...
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jnesmith said:
How did the test pour go?
Hi folks,
I received one casting last night from the newest test pour. Everything looks like what I expected, which is a good thing. I have some time tonight to play with it a little. I'm going to re-form the sole then face mill it flat and test the mouth for proper (and undersize) clearance. I'm betting this is it--keep those fingers crossed!
As I go through this one, I'll take some photos and do a proper blog entry for everyone.
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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barryvabeach
Member
Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 1205
Loc: Va Beach VA
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Thanks for the update, and looking forward to tho photos. Hope you can get all the pouring done before the heat of the summer hits.
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Hello Folks,
Good news: three new blog posts here to give you all the up-to-date information your heart may desire.
Two posts cover the alteration to the plane body pattern and the latest post gives some information on where we stand at this very moment.
I hope you enjoy, and please drop me a line if you have any questions or comments.
Once again, thanks for your patience and support!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Gregory of Sherwood Forest
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 10120
Loc: Fallen UP the stairs 4/2013
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CONGRATS James!
You sir, get the "determined man of the year" award for seeing this through.
.
--------------------
" The founding fathers weren't trying to protect citizens' rights to have an interesting hobby." I Learn Each Day 1/18/13
www.RUSTHUNTER.com
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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Wow. This is proof that good things come to those who wait.
--------------------
True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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I can't believe no one else has Posted this yet. I got an e-mail from James that he will soon be receiving an order from the foundry and will then be sending the castings to Us!! Anyone else get the same?
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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rhino
Member
Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 6099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH
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I'm on the waiting list, so not yet.
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Tools that are no good require greater skill.
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Jason28
Member
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1458
Loc: Doylestown, PA
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Same here. I do know I'm #20 on that list though.
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Jason
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PedroOhare
Dome poster in Swap + Sell
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 4717
Loc: Madison, WI
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I just wanted to let everyone know that I received my body casting, levercap (tapped) and lever cap screw today!! They are beautiful. I'll try and put up pictures later today.
Thanks James!! Maybe someone that knows what they are doing (not me in other words) will start a new thread documenting the process they go through to get the plane up and running?
Pedro
--------------------
If I suggested something like this to you personally, you would stomp me into a greasy spot.
Kizar 10/25/08
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Window Guy
Honored Veteran
Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10238
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
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anxious to see this and I am glad James was able to get the bugs worked out.
Steve
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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James:
Any idea when those of us on the wait list might have theirs available?
Thanks.
--------------------
John
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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Mine came today too - absolutely a work of art. James got the thin walled 19th century infill pattern perfect. Alittle cleanup is all that's needed!
Now I have figure out where I put that iron I got from Ron Hock!!! and take a look at my walnut stock.
--------------------
Joel
Tools for working Wood
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Christian Castillo
Member
Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 630
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Oh man I can't wait, I'm on the wait list but I am really going to enjoy seeing the planes other members make while I wait for my own .
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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PedroOhare said:
Thanks James!! Maybe someone that knows what they are doing (not me in other words) will start a new thread documenting the process they go through to get the plane up and running?
Pedro
I can't tell you all how happy make me hearing the responses from you! I also can't believe it has been ONE YEAR and several iterations to get to this place. (On that note, will this thread disappear into oblivion soon???)
I have one or two flawed castings here, haha, that I plan to use as a "test bed" so to speak and build a plane to completion. I'll have all the info up on my blog as I plod-along with that. Can't say I know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to take some hacks at it. Yes, I too have a iron from Ron needing a home!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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jnesmith said:
James:
Any idea when those of us on the wait list might have theirs available?
Thanks.
As I do chores this weekend, I plan to write those at the top of the wait list requesting a renewed commitment before I proceed with spending more money(!) at the foundry, because it has been sooooooooo long since the beginning of the project.
Once people pony-up, a new order will be placed for castings and we can move forward!
Thanks again for everyone's patience!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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JimBelair
Member
Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 447
Loc: SW Ont., Canada
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J. Conrad said:
I also can't believe it has been ONE YEAR and several iterations to get to this place. (On that note, will this thread disappear into oblivion soon???)
If I'm not mistaken, a thread is history after one year with no activity, so no worries.
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BaileyNo5
Member
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 2598
Loc: Calgary but confess I'm Okie
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J. Conrad said:
I have one or two flawed castings here, haha, that I plan to use as a "test bed" so to speak and build a plane to completion. I'll have all the info up on my blog as I plod-along with that. Can't say I know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to take some hacks at it. Yes, I too have a iron from Ron needing a home!
After watching you build the pattern for this casting, I can't imagine that you will have any issues with stuffing one with a chunk of wood. I think would be cool if you should use some of that mahogany you used for the pattern.
As for the rest of you yahoos that are reporting receiving your castings, you know the unwritten woodnet rule: "No pics, didn't happen." 
Mine is in San Fran as I write this, soon to enter the black hole of Canadian Customs. Fingers crossed.
--------------------
True power makes no noise. Albert Schweitzer - It's obvious he was referring to hand tools
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PAwoodhacker
Member
Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Harrisburg, PA
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As for the rest of you yahoos that are reporting receiving your castings, you know the unwritten woodnet rule: "No pics, didn't happen."
+1 I'm on the wait list...waiting patiently
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Jason28
Member
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1458
Loc: Doylestown, PA
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As am I.
James, can you tell us what the current pricing is? I can't imagine it's held since last year with everything you've gone through to make this happen.
--------------------
Jason
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Derek Cohen
Member
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 4442
Loc: Perth, Australia
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Hi James
I am not on the list, but have been reading along with fascination as the story unfolded, all its twists and turns, highs and lows ...
I just wanted to say that you really hung in there, and the story has a good ... great ... ending as a consequence. I have not seen the final result - a few pictures would be wonderful - but I expect it is as good as Joel commented. My congratulations (and I think that I had better put my name down when the next run is made). Well done!
Regards from Perth
Derek
--------------------
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood) said:
Mine came today too - absolutely a work of art. James got the thin walled 19th century infill pattern perfect. Alittle cleanup is all that's needed!
Now I have figure out where I put that iron I got from Ron Hock!!! and take a look at my walnut stock.
Mine arrived yesterday, and it looks fantastic. The only problem is I too am scratching my head and wondering where the heck I stashed the Hock iron...
Kudos to James for his perseverance in seeing this through and providing us all with high quality castings. I'm not sure I'd have had the patience to follow through after all the setbacks he dealt with. James, you have my thanks and admiration for a job very well done!
Cliff
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Dan Miller
Member
Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11
Loc: Cape Vincent, NY
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Mine arrived as well. I want to say this has been great watching the process, and the end results are wonderful. I've both taken and assisted in teaching Sam Johnson's bronze casting workshop and plan to start up my own little foundry when my workshop is done being built. I've really appreciated the whole troubleshooting aspect and working with patterns like this.
The only downside is this has to wait to be a winter project now, as I have to finish building my shop this summer, and I'm getting ready to reopen the museum I work at for the season.
--------------------
Dan Miller
Cape Vincent, NY
Wood Canoes, Timber Frames and more...
dragonflycanoe.com
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Jason28 said:
As am I.
James, can you tell us what the current pricing is? I can't imagine it's held since last year with everything you've gone through to make this happen.
You imagine reality. Yes, the price has been adjusted to account for the now known material and labor costs. More on this in a bit!
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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jnesmith
Member
Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 1763
Loc: Tallahassee, Fl
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J. Conrad said:
Jason28 said:
As am I.
James, can you tell us what the current pricing is? I can't imagine it's held since last year with everything you've gone through to make this happen.
You imagine reality. Yes, the price has been adjusted to account for the now known material and labor costs. More on this in a bit!
Well, I am still "all in"
--------------------
John
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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I just ordered mine!
And I just ordered the plane iron from Ron Hock. So all I need now is to wait and sort through my wood stash for an appropriately beautiful chunk of something special.
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
Edited by Blacky's Boy (04/30/13 10:30 AM)
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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BTW, I sure hope we can get some people building these smoothers so we all can ask some questions about the construction!
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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Jonathan S
Member
Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 2340
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
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Blacky's Boy said:
And I just ordered the plane iron from Ron Hock.
Where did you find the plane iron ordering info? I did not see it on Hock's website? What was the cost?
Thanks
Jonathan
--------------------
My New Blog:The Alaska Woodworker
“Think about it: Everything with a power cord eventually winds up in the trash.” John Sarge
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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Here you go:
Woodnet Cast Infill Plane Project planes
I just got notification that my plane iron is shipping. In addition James had PMed me to tell em Ron does have some of these plane irons left. I'm not sure how many.
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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After Dominic's order we have eight blades left. We'll make more as demand dictates (there's another batch of castings planned?) but it could take a couple months to get a batch done. Still $40. Please use this Infill Blade Link.
I can't wait to see how these planes turn out! Please send lots of photos of your progress, problems and, of course finished planes. Let's start a couple of new threads, maybe one for progress and problems and one for the "I'm done!" "ta-da!" gloat-posts.
Last one finished buys the beer.
--------------------
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Ron Hock said:
After Dominic's order we have eight blades left. We'll make more as demand dictates (there's another batch of castings planned?) but it could take a couple months to get a batch done. Still $40. Please use this Infill Blade Link.
I can't wait to see how these planes turn out! Please send lots of photos of your progress, problems and, of course finished planes. Let's start a couple of new threads, maybe one for progress and problems and one for the "I'm done!" "ta-da!" gloat-posts.
Last one finished buys the beer.
This is great, Ron! Thanks for being such a fan and support!
And yes, castings are being made as demand dictates.
Considering my track record, I may being buying that beer...
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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Quote:
Considering my track record, I may being buying that beer...
Ha! I think everyone here owes you at least one beer!
--------------------
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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hbmcc
Member
Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 118
Loc: Seattle area, Washington State
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Ordered Both! Thanks for keeping this project open Gentlemen!
Would a new thread for the builds be appropriate? This thread is going somewhat long, and actually falls into the project creation/design/implementation subject.
Thoughts?
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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Ron Hock said:
Ha! I think everyone here owes you at least one beer!
Boy, if that's the case, that's A LOT of beer. This project is getting better by the day...
--------------------
James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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After all you've done, I'd think a LOT of beer would be in order.
Blades are flying off the shelf. We're down to four. Just FYI.
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Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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Three.
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Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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Blacky's Boy
Moderator
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8961
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
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hbmcc said:
Ordered Both! Thanks for keeping this project open Gentlemen!
Would a new thread for the builds be appropriate? This thread is going somewhat long, and actually falls into the project creation/design/implementation subject.
Thoughts?
Sure, that's a great idea. But IMHO someone has to start assembling their smoother first and take some photos to document the process. Then they have to start the thread. I'll see what I can do about making it a "Sticky", or bumping it every couple days so it stays at the top of the Forum for a while.
--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak
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hbmcc
Member
Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 118
Loc: Seattle area, Washington State
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I could assemble and photograph the 2-cubic feet of "special wood" I liked, then grabbed to fill this little guy. Kinda' got carried away.
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Ron Hock
Member
Registered: 10/10/09
Posts: 69
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Two.
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Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS
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J. Conrad
Member
Registered: 04/11/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Colorado
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hbmcc said:
I could assemble and photograph the 2-cubic feet of "special wood" I liked, then grabbed to fill this little guy. Kinda' got carried away.
That's a great idea. I can't wait to see what people do with these. I too plan to build one and document the process on my blog (with regular check-ins here of course). Time is the issue though--too many projects!
What wood did you splurge on?
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James Uhrich
Sturnella Toolworks
info@sturnella.com
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Cliff Ober
Member
Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 430
Loc: Missouri City, Texas, USA
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J. Conrad said:
hbmcc said:
I could assemble and photograph the 2-cubic feet of "special wood" I liked, then grabbed to fill this little guy. Kinda' got carried away.
That's a great idea. I can't wait to see what people do with these. I too plan to build one and document the process on my blog (with regular check-ins here of course). Time is the issue though--too many projects!
What wood did you splurge on?
I have a nice block of Texas ebony that I bought several years ago that might look good with that bronze...
Cliff
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Phil S.
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 393
Loc: 58.4° N 134.5° W
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James-
You posted a profile dimensioned drawing of the Sturnella smoother a year ago (4/23/12). Would you have a similar dimensioned drawing of the plane in plan view (from the top) that you could post?
Thanks-
Phil
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Joel (Tools for Working Wood)
Member
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1100
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The original plans are in the issue of work magazine - issue 5 I think IIRC
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Joel
Tools for working Wood
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Phil S.
Member
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 393
Loc: 58.4° N 134.5° W
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Thanks, Joel - Yes - it's issue 5, but the Work plan drawing only has dimensions for the greatest interior width and the width of the mouth opening. James profile drawing provides more detail and I'm hoping he has a similar plan drawing, particularly if his dimensions vary a bit from those in the Work write-up.
Phil
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Rodneywt1180b
Member
Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 396
Loc: Centralia, WA
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I haven't commented on this thread but I have been following along. Very interesting process to get the castings to the point that they are now. Your attention to detail has certainly paid off in the quality of your finished product.
Awesome work, the castings are beautiful and now that people are starting to receive them, I'm anxious to see how the various finished planes turn out. The people building them certainly have an excellent base to start from and it will be interesting to see how the variations unfold.
Rodney
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Curmudgeon in training
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Martin S.
Honored Veteran
Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 3667
Loc: 777 Right Seat
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OK, I am getting ready to plunk down my money for the "kit", but first, I need to make sure I can get a copy of the article.
Can someone provide a link to where I can buy a back issue of the magazine with the "how to build it" article?
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...Naval Aviators, that had balz made of brass and the size of bowling balls, getting shot off the deck at night, in heavy seas, hoping that when they leave the deck that the ship is pointed towards the sky and not the water.
AD1 T. O. Cronkhite
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Isaac S
Member
Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 836
Loc: Doe Run, PA
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I don't think you can buy it. It's even better than that - Joel has posted pdf's on his website.
PDF
Blog entry
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Isaac
Blackburn Tools - woodworking tools old & new
Blog
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Martin S.
Honored Veteran
Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 3667
Loc: 777 Right Seat
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