Cian said:

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And a few dollars on a single item won't sway me one way or another if I'm also buying a bunch of stuff from the same vendor. Sure, I'm a cheapskate like the rest of us, but I know we're smart enough to balance one's purchases against shipping costs and fuel let alone the value of one's time.

Rockler has some items cheaper. Woodcraft on others. Amazon on others still. And we won't forget Lee Valley and Hartville and Holbren and ??? They all serve a much needed purpose/outlet, and we are clearly much better off with having these multiple options.

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DW Pgh said:

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A quick view through any FWW from the early 90s will show that tool prices haven't changed a lot, and with inflation adjustment, they've gotten a lot cheaper. Combination of thinning margins, the internet and overseas production is responsible for a lot of that, I'm sure.

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Admiral said:

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DW Pgh said:

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A quick view through any FWW from the early 90s will show that tool prices haven't changed a lot, and with inflation adjustment, they've gotten a lot cheaper. Combination of thinning margins, the internet and overseas production is responsible for a lot of that, I'm sure.

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Absolutely right.

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That all sounds a bit xenophobic to me. A more realistic explanation is supply and demand. There are a lot more tool manufacturers now with a wider product line. More competition means lower prices. Good for us consumers.

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RD

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NoTalentRookie said:

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Dimner said:

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hey, that's my icon!

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Yeah....I've noticed yours before. I figure......you've been here longer, but I have a higher post count. Whata ya say we call it a draw, and both keep it.

Besides.....mine's cropped down so they're not exactly the same.

I knew, sooner or later we'd post in the same thread.

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That was my first post since 2005... so I think your more than welcome to use it. If I start posting alot again, I will change it.

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--Mike

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Richard D. said:

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Admiral said:

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DW Pgh said:

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A quick view through any FWW from the early 90s will show that tool prices haven't changed a lot, and with inflation adjustment, they've gotten a lot cheaper. Combination of thinning margins, the internet and overseas production is responsible for a lot of that, I'm sure.

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Absolutely right.

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That all sounds a bit xenophobic to me. A more realistic explanation is supply and demand. There are a lot more tool manufacturers now with a wider product line. More competition means lower prices. Good for us consumers.

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Good, God. There's nothing xenophobic about it, it's just the market doing what it takes to stay in business or grow if they can.

The overseas production, I think, is probably the biggest determinant in keeping things like PC's barrel sander about the same price as it was 20 years ago.

Same thing with any items casted or machined. It's just the way it is, not xenophobic at all.

They all also know that mid-grade tools, at least what i'd consider mid grade, like cabinet table saws and dewalt or PC quality level hand held power tools are no longer just aimed at contractors - they're aimed more and more at DIYers.

If you looked at what the old milwaukee and dewalt tool prices were 20 years ago and inflation adjusted them, I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers looked about what like festool and fein prices look like for similar tools - for a simple reason - fein and festool decided they were better off staying the course.

There's no real magic in it. End thought of mine, though, is that it's better now for a DIYer or a hobbyist than it would've been 20 years ago - for both power tools and hand tools.

The group who loses at a little is the pros, the ones who put a new tool in the hands of the uninitiated and let them run them all day. I heard a guy at rockler the last time I was there who mentioned that he was buying PC sanders but in the end, it's cheaper for him to buy festool sanders, because his employees can kill a PC sander once every six months. 20 years ago, maybe the PC sander of the same model was a little better, but a hobbyist who is going to use it once every two weeks is never going to wear it out - at least not at the rate of some guy who's going to run it hours a day trying to get a job done as fast as possible.

Even though there are a few more quality issues to deal with in terms of the mid-grade tools, the imports themselves have gone up in quality. I have a delta jointer from the early to mid 90s that came from taiwan. It's a total piece of garbage, not even up to what HF carries. I remember seeing a lot of the first wave of imported tools coming through TSC, et al, that was from china or taiwan - a lot of it not even usable when it was new. Most of that stuff is gone, and even if all of the import stuff isn't great, most of it is reasonably usable.

Grizzly tools are another example of something imported that's gotten better - the old ones were pretty rough and nasty.

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59Billy said:

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And unless I've guessed wrong about your age, 6th grade was a while before NYW.

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You could say that. Hey, I'll be the first to admit NYW rekindled my interest.

As to hand tools----"supply and demand" give me a break. Anyone watched what's happening now---less demand and prices continue to rise across the board. Anyway, I started to renew my interest in hand tools, both from articles and watching Roy Underhill. Considering there was no power cord, prices were high and frankly it's hard to recommend to a newbee that he/she start off with hand tools, as many of us have, when it costs so much.

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Dave

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