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Blacky's BoyModerator
Moderator

Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8981
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
New Product input requested: Saw Templates
      #5962463 - 06/19/12 10:22 AM

Hi Gang,
After completing some saw plate orders for customers I was puttering around in the shop last night and started working on some saw teeth templates.

If you don't know what a saw tooth template is, here's the skinny on it. Say you have a saw and you want a new pitch to the teeth. Like it's set for 14 ppi rip and you want 12 ppi crosscut. What do you do? Well you can send it to someone with a Foley Retoother and have them punch new teeth in it. OR you can file down all the teeth and then file in the new ones using a paper template that has the correct spacing on it.

Another solution is to use a another saw (that has the filing you want) as a template. You simply clamp you old saw plate and the "template" right on top pf one another and "transfer" the pattern from one to another.

But what if you don't have a saw with the proper filing? Well, that's where these come in. I'm thinking of offering a set of saw tooth templates for sale. I have these pieces of 2" wide x 27" (ish) long x 0.020" thk 301 SS that would be just about perfect for them.

Why 27" and not 28"? Well, 28" is the limit of the Foley Retoother. And you need a bit of wiggle room on each side to make it easier to center on the carrier bar. Making it exactly 28" means you have to place it EXACTLY dead center each and every time you punch it. And if you screw up you've ruined the template. Not fun. Not fun at all.

I used 301 SS because it's rust resistant,......and I have a bunch of it. I could probably use 0.025" thk. But that's not as available. And these are just templates. They don't need to be "beefy".

Here's one I made up last night.




It has 15 ppi Rip on one side and 15 ppi Crosscut on the other.

My questions are:
  • Do I really need a crosscut AND a rip version? Wouldn't one be sufficient to enable you to transfer the spacing?
  • I would assume that lower number PPI templates (4ppi to 12 ppi) would need to be 27" long. Would making the higher number PPI templates (13 ppi to 16 ppi) 16" long be sufficient?
  • Anyone know of a set of punches that can emboss spring steel? I want to punch the filing for each template into them.


Any (realistic) suggestions or recommendations would be welcomed.

Thanks,

--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak


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RonB1957
Member

Registered: 02/15/11
Posts: 947
Loc: IL. near St. Louis
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5962492 - 06/19/12 10:45 AM

Hi Dom. I Initially thought it would be nice to have a x cut and rip. But after all the reading I have been doing lately, I think the ppi is enough. The pitch is defined, or altered when you file the teeth anyway. Is it not? And you are filing the whole tooth in, as opposed to repunching them. This would help to limit the number of templates you would have to have on hand providing you are stocking them for inventory. Just my humble 2 cents.

--------------------
Just living and learning


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jossimbyr
Psychic. Or was that Psychotic?

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 397
Loc: Troy, AL
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5962642 - 06/19/12 12:39 PM

Neato. I could really use some of these, since *every* old saw I seem to file has a couple of hard spots that really screw up my filing. As for your question, I think Ron hit the nail on the head where the filing for rip and xcut are concerned. Now, for the length of the plates, are you wanting these to be used in a retoother? I've never used one, so I don't know how it all works, but I would say that the longest that a plate needs to be is about as wide as a saw vise. Any longer is just wasted material, unless someone has a homemade vise that runs the length of all their saws.

Now, if these are intended for retoothers, then you might also want to make the extra-long fine-tooth templates for use with miterbox saws.

--------------------
Interested in looking at my tools? :P Check out my image sets on Flickr...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/76077448@N00/sets/


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Window Guy
Honored Veteran

Registered: 06/03/01
Posts: 10263
Loc: St. Cloud,Fl., USA
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5962661 - 06/19/12 12:53 PM

I will be watching this thread with great interest, not having sharpened a saw yet but will be starting soon I hope.

I think you are on to something here Dom.

Steve


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Pedder
Member

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 958
Loc: Kiel / Germany
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5962850 - 06/19/12 03:18 PM

Hi Dom,

I've laser cut patterns and use them a lot!




I file just one little notch so it doesn't matter to me wich rake the pattern has (my are all 0° rake)

What about two pitches per pattern instead?

Cheers
Pedder

--------------------
Old Ladies

Two Lawyers Tools - Klaus & Pedder bauen Sägen (sic!)


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gregsturnings
Member

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 676
Loc: Versailles, Indiana
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Window Guy]
      #5962871 - 06/19/12 03:30 PM

Window Guy said:


I will be watching this thread with great interest, not having sharpened a saw yet but will be starting soon I hope.

I think you are on to something here Dom.Steve




+! I too plan to start down the slope of reconditioning saws. This will be an interesting topic.


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AHill
Honored Veteran

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 5149
Loc: Antelope Valley, California
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5962985 - 06/19/12 05:12 PM

Dom,

I would recommend just rip, and cutting different tpi's on each side of the template. I use a template more to establish a new tpi. Rip or crosscut for me is simply a matter of how I file and set the teeth.

--------------------
Still Learning,

Allan Hill


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Blacky's BoyModerator
Moderator

Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 8981
Loc: Buck's County PA USA
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5963029 - 06/19/12 05:41 PM

Great input so far! Sounds like the consensus is to have rip teeth punched in and to have two different PPI per template (1 per long edge)

But how about the length? I think that standardizing on one length is a good idea less to stock that way.

And how about a way to punch numbers into the steel? Any of our resident machinists have any suggestions?

--------------------
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak


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Arlin Eastman
Honored VeteranBronze Medal with Valor Purple Heart x2

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 3841
Loc: Council Bluffs, IA
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5963111 - 06/19/12 06:54 PM

Dom

I think this is a great idea also and would like to buy sometime.
Like Pedder said "What about two pitches per pattern instead? "


As to the numbers all machinists like me and in the past used punches with 1/16 to 3/4 and inbetween sizes.

Arlin

--------------------
It is always the right time, to do the right thing!

Loving Hands Memory Boxes


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Daryl Weir
Professor Sawboy

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 1142
Loc: Knoxville, IL
Re: New Product input requested: Saw Templates new [Re: Blacky's Boy]
      #5963276 - 06/19/12 09:18 PM

Hey Dom,

Somehow those look strangely familiar............ I think I made a full set back in 2002. I just use mine for an initial spacing mark and then remove it, so shape really doesn't mean anything. Having a different ppi on each edge is not a bad idea.



--------------------
Take care,
Daryl
Old Saws Restored


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