LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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I did what I said I'd do on two infill smoothers and after beveling the capirons 50 degress it made no descernable improvements to their performance. On one it allowed me to set the iron a smidge closer which didn't hurt,but still didn't make any big changes in performance. So I'm forced to conclude on infills it doesn't make a difference if your irons and capirons were fotted well to each other to begin with. Hardly a deffinative scientific study but I did use two identical smoothers of reputable make,Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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toolemera
Member
Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 1330
Loc: Dedham, Massachusetts
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Did you measure with an inside or an outside micrometer?
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Gary Roberts
Dedham, MA USA
toolemera.com
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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I checked it under a magnifying scope from what it was to begin with which was almost on the iron's cutting edge and it was less then the shavings the planes took previously which a 1000th or so. I planes the following boards cherry,walnut,white oak and what either black locust or locust not sure. On my magnifyer you can set it over an object and set lines that stay in place[used for machining of some sort] so it was easy to see a slight difference in the one that moved closer to the edge.I also question how long that edge would have held up in use since it was so close and it appeared to be folding up slightly at the very edge under the magnification.Both the irons were Sheffield cast tool steel irons by the same maker of the appropriate period the infills were made[1880's] and they were the makers choice in there planes at that time. Both were sharpened the same as all my irons using a Tormeck,water stones through 8000 grit then stropping with green rouge. Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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Craig D
Member
Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 321
Loc: Oregon USA
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I'm curious about the bed angle of the test infills - of the planes I have, 50º seems to be the "knee of the curve" for chip breakers, ie above 50º a chip breaker doesn't seem all that necessary, at 45º, very nice. 47.7º? I have no idea.
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Craig D Does sawing logs count as woodwork? My blog
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mongo
Member
Registered: 12/10/05
Posts: 4592
Loc: Largo, FL
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Is it reasonable to assume that they have a very tight mouth?
What was the bed angle?
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Brad
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Corneel
Member
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1688
Loc: The Netherlands
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Interesting Len! Always nice to see some conflicting results, makes life more colorfull  .
But I am not quite sure from your description what you were trying to compare. Did you test the "setting of the capiron close to the edge" or did you test the "steep bevel on the front of the capiron"?
Did you get tearout before the test with these same infills on these pieces of wood? And did you also try to take thick smoother shavings, 3-4 thou thick?
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seekelot.blogspot.com
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Steve Friedman
Member
Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 1339
Loc: New Jersey
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toolemera said:
Did you measure with an inside or an outside micrometer?
Gary, based on the other thread, I assume this was tongue-in-cheek. If so, well played. If I was drinking something while reading, the liquid would have been all over the computer screen. If the post was supposed to be serious, my apologies. Based on my inexperience, I have no opinion or comment on the cap iron thing, but did enjoy the videos. Just wanted to acknowledge your quick wit.
Steve
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LENPAM
Infill Magnet
Registered: 04/03/05
Posts: 9743
Loc: PORT CLINTON,OHIO
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I did this looking for improved performance and no my smoothers did not skip or tearout beforehand. I should make clear these irons and capirons are identical and were extra sets I'd found somewhere so I tried this to see if it improved things. It did not and I doubt it could,but since then I see mention of thicker shavings and I did not adjust my planes to take thick shavings since I would not use them in that fashion since they are smoothers. It may well improve the performance of a Stanley type plane with thinner irons and chipbreakers but I saw no effect on an infill smoother.Len
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INFILL MAGNET
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Corneel
Member
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1688
Loc: The Netherlands
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Yes when the plane performs fine, it's difficult to improve. I know my nameless infill with big mouth was easily coaxed into better performance with the capiron set close to the edge.
When i write about thicker shavings it's for two reasons. First in a test situation you can better find the limits when you push the plane to the max. But more important is the second reason. I like to prep the wood by hand sometimes and then a thicker smoothing shaving is really helpfull to speed up the proces.
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seekelot.blogspot.com
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Corneel
Member
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 1688
Loc: The Netherlands
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I've been thinking a bit more why I don't like fluffy shavings.
Somehow on my boards the tearout tends to find itself in the shallow hollows. Then the tearout usually is rather deep when you used a jointer without setting the capiron. In the past when fluffy shavings were my only tool against tearout that meant a prolonged session to handthickness a board with 1 thou shavings ( I am exagerating just a little bit).
Then there is the effect that a sharp iron gets pulled into the wood when taking a shaving. This is really helpfull, especially with leightweight planes. On a thicker shaving this effect is much stronger.
And finally in wooden planes, a thick shaving just flows much easier. Thin shavings tend to curl up and clog down in the throat when the plane isn't perfectly executed (like most any vintage wooden plane).
In other words, setting the capiron close to the edge gave me a new tool to fight tearout, and finaly relieved me of faffing around with fluffy shavings.
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seekelot.blogspot.com
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