RichardC
Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Pacific NW
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All
Back on 6/18/12, I posted a question regarding how best to avoid "fish eye" on a re-finished furniture that had years of "pledge", and probable silicon contamination. Many responses and advise. Thanks to all!.
I just started my Master bedroom set refinish (again, years of pledge), using the following steps.
First, I poured a small area of Mineral Spirits on the on-striped surface to check for the inevitable Silicon contamination and low and behold, there it was. Not real bad, but obvious. I then stripped down to the bare wood using a "green" citrus stripper ( non Meth. Chloride), followed by multiple scrubs and wipes with Mineral Spirits, turning the cloth with every wipe until it remained clean (within reason)
I then applied a strong Meth Chloride stripper, scrubbing with an abrasive pad, and again wiping until the rag was clean. Again a wash with Mineral Spirits to remove residue, and a final wipe, one direction only before turning, with Acetone.
Hopefully all of the above will help to eliminate or at least minimize any residual Silicon contamination and fish eye. I know that a couple coats of sprayed de-waxed Shellac is the preferred method to seal in any contaminates, but as my Aniline Dye is alcohol based, I can just picture the dye rolling off the vertical surfaces if I spray too heavily. So, I plan of using a cherry Aniline Dye for color, and will try a wiping varnish top coat instead of a brush coat. I read somewhere (maybe here), that wiping varnish is a good alternative when concerned about "fish eye", because the excess is wiped off before it can "crater".
After all that, my question is, are there any issues or cautions with top coating an alcohol / water based dye with an oil based wiping varnish that I need to be aware of.
Thanks in Advance for reading this long winded post.
RichardC
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6534
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Add the dye to the shellac to make a tint coat. I do that all the time with TransTint.
BTW aniline dyes are no longer available in the US due to toxicity. What are sold as aniline dyes are different chemicals.
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homo homini lupus
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jteneyck
Member
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 3082
Loc: Western NY
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No problem at all applying oil based varnish over Trantint dye in either water or alcohol. You may get a little lift off of the dye left on the surface onto your wiping cloth with your first coat, but it doesn't effect the color. I've used this schedule many times and it is easy to do and produces a beautiful look. My only caution is to not sand until you have applied two coats of the wiping varnish, so there's less risk of sanding into/through your dye layer. 320 grit works fine for me.
John
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18883
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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>>>> that wiping varnish is a good alternative when concerned about "fish eye", because the excess is wiped off before it can "crater".
Not correct. Wiping varnish is nothing more than a thinned standard varnish. It's applied and NOT wiped off. It has no advantage when dealing with fisheye. You may be thinking of an oil/varnish mixture which is applied by wiping on, letting set for 15-20 minutes and then the excess wiped off. But, even there, I've never heard of an oil/varnish having any particular use when dealing with surface contamination.
Personally, I would spray two light "mist" coats of dewaxed shellac. Then apply your shellac based dye stain again misting on the coats and letting them fully dry between coats. Now apply your thinned varnish (without wiping between coats).
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Howie.........
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RichardC
Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Pacific NW
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Howard
I may have misunderstood your response, but I sounds like your suggesting I spray the Shellac barrier coats prior to staining with the Aniline Dye? Did I read that wrong?
RichardC
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18883
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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RichardC said:
Howard
I may have misunderstood your response, but I sounds like your suggesting I spray the Shellac barrier coats prior to staining with the Aniline Dye? Did I read that wrong?
RichardC
No, you want to apply the dye before you apply any seal coat like shellac. Once the shellac is on, the wood will no longer absorb the dye. Sorry for any confusion.
Another thought, after stripping the finish and then wiping down the surface with acetone, you could probably just spray your tinted dewaxed shellac onto the surface. In other words, use the tinted shellac as both a toner coloring and a sealer. Even though the shellac has the dye mixed in, it will still be as effective as an untinted shellac for sealing in any residual contaminate. Get on two coat without any sanding between coats. Then apply your first coat of varnish. Lightly sand the varnish coat and then apply a couple of more coats of your varnish.
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Howie.........
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RichardC
Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Pacific NW
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Thanks everyone.
I've had an inexpensive HVLP system on the shelf for awhile, just haven't taken the time to play with it. Looks like now is the time. The bedroom set is huge, 8 pieces. The dresser I'm working with now is 6' long with 2 doors and 9 drawers. I'll have plenty of practice!
So, Aniline Dye followed by 2 spray coats of Seal Coat Shellac, then Varnish
Thanks again
RichardC
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6534
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Save a step and put the dye in the shellac.
Make sure to test the entire finishing schedule all the way through on scrap or the bottom of a drawer or the inside of a bed frame. You may need several tests to get things right.
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homo homini lupus
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Howard Acheson
Registered: 08/07/01
Posts: 18883
Loc: Southport, NC USA
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>>>> I've had an inexpensive HVLP system on the shelf for awhile, just haven't taken the time to play with it. Looks like now is the time.
You never want to be faced with a big project and then attempt to use a new finish and/or an application method. The time to learn and practice a process is well before you have project facing you.
At this point, buy Charron's Spray Finishing (Amazon will have it). It will tell you how to set up and adjust your equipment. It will also tell you how to "read" the spray to know what adjustments to make. To minimize or correct problems. Finally, it will show you how to pre-finish certain parts of a project that would be problematic once a piece is assembled.
In the shop I had, the finishers were part of the initial project planning to provide input to the woodworkers so that construction could take into account potential finishing problems.
Bottom line, you don't just fill up the gun and fire awayl Learn and practice the techniques on cardboard boxes and/or scrap material before you attempt a real job.
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Howie.........
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RichardC
Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Pacific NW
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My Statement about "practicing" was a little broad. I would never practice on a finished piece. My shop has plenty of scrap wood in the same Oak for that purpose.
I have been looking at various spray finishing books, but your recommendation for this particular book is good enough for me.
RichardC
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