Rick F
Member formerly Jokerbird
Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 4949
Loc: Vancouver Island Canada
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The DC outside is an issue in cold climates.. Its amazing how fast a 3hp - 5hp dust collector can suck all the warm air out of a building ..
If your in Arizona.. Go for it .. In Canada, heating a shop is expensive enough in the winter.
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MichaelMouse
Member
Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 8153
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I'd put the whole thing in the remote corner next to the wood rack. I want any air I've paid to warm or cool to stay with me. The ducts belong under the floor, but you want to plan them with the idea that something will get stuck somewhere that you must get out. Cleanouts at corners, perhaps. Modified plumber's snake worked at the school. Fished through narrow, then pulled with the padded ply circle. Cursed the designer every time. Can't curse the kids, after all.
Putting it outside, if someone else is paying the heat/cool bill, is nice, but wouldn't containing all that "fine dust" lead to ... an explosion?
Mammoth Lakes - municipal retirement?
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Better to follow the leader than the pack. Less to step in.
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WilliamHodge
Member
Registered: 06/29/10
Posts: 125
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Dust collection on the ceiling allows you more freedom to move things around the shop. As you add machines, other machines need to move. Moving a hole in the floor a few inches is difficult. Shops evolve over time, they aren't static. Locking machines in place makes it hard to change.
WH
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sylvius
Member
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 891
Loc: Philly, PA
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WilliamHodge said:
Dust collection on the ceiling allows you more freedom to move things around the shop. As you add machines, other machines need to move. Moving a hole in the floor a few inches is difficult. Shops evolve over time, they aren't static. Locking machines in place makes it hard to change.
WH
+1 You can plan and think and plan some more and lay out all the DC drops perfectly and then the first time you use something you realize it's not in a good spot. If the ductwork is all in the floor it's going to be a real PITA to move the tools. You will inevitably end up with a bunch of above the floor connections between tool and floor drops, which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place. With 10' ceilings, should have plenty of space up there to run a main across the ceiling with several drops along the way and really easy to tie into anywhere you need. Also, are you considering putting just the ductwork down there or also the actual dust collector? Hopefully just the former or you will curse yourself every time the bag needs to be emptied (which is way more often then I would ever have thought when it comes to planing a few boards down a 1/4" or so...).
+1 also on the comment about the basement. A 48" crawlspace is not much space once the floor joists are in (particularly if you end up with blocking between the joists. I'm in my 30s and my back hurts thinking about crawling around down there. But if you can dig out a basement, you've essentially doubled your space for relatively little added cost (unless you are in a place where basements don't work well).
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MichaelMouse
Member
Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 8153
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WilliamHodge said:
Dust collection on the ceiling allows you more freedom to move things around the shop. As you add machines, other machines need to move. Moving a hole in the floor a few inches is difficult. Shops evolve over time, they aren't static. Locking machines in place makes it hard to change.
Problem is, it has to overcome gravity to pull the stuff up. Means a bigger unit and being real careful not to leave a gate open where it can suck easy air.
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Better to follow the leader than the pack. Less to step in.
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lift mechanic
Member
Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 225
Loc: Mammoth Lakes, California
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All good advice here. Basements don't work here water is a issue. I keep thinking over head DC then under the floor, good arguements both ways. Thank goodness I am in the planning stage. That is why I come to this site for ideas and thoughts. Keep them coming, all food for thought. Thanks, Mark
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I don't understand it
I've cut it twice
And it is still too short
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Rick F
Member formerly Jokerbird
Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 4949
Loc: Vancouver Island Canada
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Hmm..
In my plans, I would still have overhead dust collection.
It would be a dual branch system .. one below the floor and one above.
Jointer, Table saw, Bandsaw .. all work naturally with the dust going down ..
Sanders and planers the dust would travel up ..
Picture a round template to make a 6" circle .. you want a hole in the floor for 6" dust pipe, lay it in the spot and put a spike through .. Then use a router to cut around the template and poof you have a new 6" hole ..
Make a bigger template and you can easily make patches to fix the floor if a machine moves.
There is a product called 1-1/8" Edge Gold .. Good in wet climates, With 12" on center 2x10 spanning 9 feet, you could park a car collection on the floor and never have a problem . . 3/4" plywood on 16" .. ( 14.5" ) centers will also be amazingly strong..
I am not really a fan of I - Joist for a shop, but I am sure they will work fine .. Its all in how they are designed..
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Mr_Mike
Rocketeer
Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 20235
Loc: So Cal, USA
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Jokerbird said:
I am not really a fan of I - Joist for a shop, but I am sure they will work fine .. Its all in how they are designed..
Why is an I-joist not your preference? Pound for pound, stiffer than dimensional lumber. Each, of course, must be designed for the application.
I prefer concrete, all things considered, but it may no be practical.
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Rocket Science is more fun when you actually have rockets.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." -- Patrick Henry
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toolie
Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 1822
Loc: westchester cnty, NY
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if you can go under the floor, do it. check out the undisputed master of automated, neat shops (note, his DC network is under his shop floor):
http://videos.americanwoodworker.com/video/Automatic-Dust-Collection
alan goes by Alan in Little Washington" on this forum.
BTW, i noticed you mentioned you were considering beefing up the floor so it will support a vehicle. i also noticed you're in california. don't they have pretty tough codes there? wouldn't a new building require drawings/plans from a licensed professional of some kind? or this this going to be one of those "we don't need no stinkin' permit" jobs?
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there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6551
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Having owned a machine shop I am not a fan of under the floor anything. Given the space, which is good, you need to look at three things:
1. crap getting into outlets, I wound up extending them above the floor—vertically almost like wall outlets.
2. Sounds like enough space but how often are you going to move machines to access stuff?
3. Water and clean out! You need to plan for that upfront.
BTW how about the building code? Prince William County VA no longer allows power under the floor unless its in EMT or similar conduits.
IME you want power from the ceiling grid, under floor DC is likely OK.
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homo homini lupus
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