weelis
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 950
Loc: Daytona Beach, Fl./Highlands, ...
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Do any of you put there use a color wheel in your finish work? If so, which one do u recommend? Seems to me it would help; especially a novice like me. Thanx for any feedback.
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6530
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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I use TransTint wood samples as I use their dyes. A standard color wheel will not do much of anything for you. It is just a convenience.
Why do you ask?
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homo homini lupus
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Sawdustd
Member
Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 849
Loc: Burke, VA
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First, let me recommend you buy Bob Flexner's book -- Understanding Wood Finishing. Understanding various finishes is a mystery to a lot of woodworkers and Bob's book breaks the code. There is no greater disappointment than having a completed piece look crappy color wise after you have spent hours cutting, milling, glueing, assembling and sanding.
Now about the color wheel and JR1's question is valid. What do expect it to do?
A color wheel is used to determine what colors can be blended/mixed to obtain a different color. I was introduced to the color wheel by a salesman at Woodcraft when I was serching for a dye that would make my "mixed up" dye browner. It was too red and I wanted it browner. Using a color wheel, the answer was green. Mix red and green and you get brown. I mixed up some green dye and then added it to my initial brew until I got the just right color. Blending/mixing dyes using a color wheel will enable you to get your desired color. Oil based stains can get you close- sometimes.
Each type of wood stains/dyes differently.
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6530
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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@Sawdustd
I agree but one other thing is are you looking in natural light or flos? Flos can distort color badly so unless you can compare under tungsten or natural light the results will vary. The color mixing charts found online can tell you what color will get the general results you want, but only you can tell if its right.
Actually the the histogram in many digital cameras may help, especially if the camera is calibrated.
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homo homini lupus
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weelis
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 950
Loc: Daytona Beach, Fl./Highlands, ...
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It was an innocent question. Trying to match color in a 75 yr. old chair. Can't quite find the right combination so was looking for a teaching/learning aid. Lost a piece of wood from the chair when the back rest broke off. Have filled the void and am trying to match the surrounding color. Thought color wheel might give me a clue as to what color to mix to approximate the original color. Thnx.
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JR1
Member
Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 6530
Loc: Teller country, Co, USA
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Well good luck! A color wheel is not intended for matching colors. All you can do is systematically try different dyes on scrap and see how close you can get. Likely given the age it was done with nitro lacquer.
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homo homini lupus
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weelis
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 950
Loc: Daytona Beach, Fl./Highlands, ...
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OK thanks. That answers mg question. Will continue on my present course. As always, my questions are answered in this section.
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Snipe Hunter
MasterCarpainter
Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 33396
Loc: Md, USSA
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Some tips for matching colors:
1st, understand how to use a color wheel and understand what you are trying to do.
Also remember that it's always much easier to darken a color than to lighten a color so start with an equal or lighter base than the desired finished product if at all possible. Match the color first, then darken it to match with black.
Assume you have an existing reddish stain like a mahogany or dark cherry finish. You'll need to compare the targeted color and your new color side by side. You'll notice that your new red is either too violet and/or blue or too orange and/or yellow. If it's too violet.... add orange to bend it back to red. If it's too orange, add violet to bend it back to red.
Adding red to make it more red will take forever and a ton of tint.
Don't go too far around the color wheel for tinting or you'll get a muddy color. Add small amounts. It's amazing how fast a color will bend with small amounts of tint. If it needs to be muddy, do it after you match the color.
Then darken it with black to match.
You'll never get a perfect match, it's impossible. The whole idea is to fool the eye so blend out your repair as best as possible. If you are staining a new piece to match an existing piece... get the value as close as you can. Value is the lightness/darkness. Also get the hue as close as you can. Hue is it's position on the color wheel.... it's color.
It gets real difficult when you need to muddy up the color and bend it towards brown. Browns and grays are towards the center of the color wheel. Shown below. You'll have to take a color opposite your hue on the color wheel and start adding it till you get the desired muddyness.
Browns are typically achieved in the orange area of the wheel closer to center. Grays are in the blue and green areas and black is in the dead center of the wheel.
Lightening a color is real difficult and should be avoided if possible. It's better to start too light and darken to match or you'll get washed out colors. For instance, adding white to lighten red will make pink. You don't want pink.
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weelis
Honored Veteran
Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 950
Loc: Daytona Beach, Fl./Highlands, ...
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Thanx Snipe Hunter!!
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Snipe Hunter
MasterCarpainter
Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 33396
Loc: Md, USSA
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There's a lot of good color matching info on the web. Most of it is geared towards artists but the same rules apply. The big difference in wood staining is that you don't get to start with a white background and your colors aren't opaque. You wood will effect the final color.
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