Contemplating SawStop, basic questions...

[R Clark]

As Simon says, yes, the T-Glide.  You're looking at the 52" anyway, and the T-Glide is the fence for that configuration.

SS calls their standard fence the "Premium" fence, and it ships with their 30" extension PCS.  That term "Premium" is marketing talk for the entry-level fence.

Love the T-Glide on my saw.  Outstanding performance in the 9 years I've had the saw.  Rock solid and really holds adjustment.

[coolidge]

I spoke with SS last week regarding the differences between the ICS and PCS. I ended up purchasing the ICS 5hp, ICS mobile base, folding outfeed table and floating overarm dust collector.

• ICS table deeper 30” vs 27 PCS
• PCS trunnions, handle wheels etc are all scaled down on the Professional model which is why you see a major weight difference of about 200 lbs vs ICS
• ICS table and wings has thicker cast iron. 6mm nominal for the PCS vs 10-13mm for the ICS table and 8mm for the ICS wings.
• ICS has lock out tag out feature as well as interlocks on both cabinet doors which the Professional does not.
• ICS motor has a 5 year warranty, 2 years overall on the saw and the Professional is a 2 year overall, no additional motor warranty.

[Rob Young]

The KCWG shared shop space has 5 of the PCS models. These get use all day, every day by a variety of skill levels. Two dedicated for ripping (rip blade and long outfeed), two for cross cut (one with the slider -- not a fan, mechanically not that sturdy) and one for the dado stack.

For the most part they have been great but here is a partial list of things that have gone wrong or at least should be watched.

* Most common reason for popping a cartridge -- if the blade is spinning, even that last little bit of a coast-down, you can pop the cartridge! This has been the case nearly every time for the KCWG. Getting impatient with adjusting the fence for the next cut and jumping in with a steel tape is a bad idea. Only had a few cartridges pop because of too-wet wood and I think two actual touched the blade incidents. This is after 5 (?) years and a LOT of use by what would be thousands of people (maybe not thousands of unique persons though).


* The riving knife can be knocked out of alignment. I have no idea HOW people are doing this but they are doing it. So we occasionally have to fiddle with the mount to re-align the knife. In one case, somebody managed to bend the knife (the free-standing one, not the one with the guards) by whacking it with a heavy board.

* The tilt mechanism (worm + gear) has a tendency to get popped off the shaft if you force it when clogged. Of course the simple answer is don't force it when clogged and keep it clean. Again, this is a shared shop space and the majority of users probably have less than 3 years experience and don't actively participate in machine maintenance. 

* Bit crowded and difficult to get to some of the mechanism inside for cleaning. Not unique to SS though.

* Overtightening of the cone nut that locks the height or bevel adjust will strip things. Again, not unique to SS.

* The paddle switch has been updated but it used to be a problem where a little tab could get sheared off and the switch would flop about, vibration could then cause the paddle to fall back and turn off the saw.

* The mount for the whole switch assembly used to be less sturdy. Its been upgraded.

* Over-zelous adjusting of the friction pads in the upgraded fence will wear off the fence scale. Again, this took years but it has happened. People think they are "helping" by adjusting the friction but nope.

* Dust collection - for the most part OK and the comments above about the method for splitting for the over-arm apply. More inches of pull is more better. 

* Generally the blade to table to fence alignment stays put. The fence being the weak spot in a shared shop as it gets whacked once in a while.

* The blade guard assembly is generally OK but the side flaps can be snagged and can be flexed into the blade. Not a big deal but does look a bit ugly after a while. Similarly, if the pawls get hit too hard and bent, they can snag the rest of the assembly. Both problems are not unique to the Saw Stop. 

* Two units have the mobile base option installed because they can be moved out of the way to utilize that part of the shop space for meeting space and they seem to be holding their alignments just as well as the three that don't get moved. Granted, we haven't been moving them much in 2020 but they were moved twice a week from about 2017 until 2020.


All in all, if you are the primary user of the saw or at least have a small crew that uses it they can be properly trained you should have any significant issues. 

But in the case of our shop space, we get a VERY WIDE experience range. So the table saws get a little bit abused and I'd say nearly all the problems can be traced back to heavy-handed use by people that don't have a direct interest in maintaining or paying for the equipment. They pay their shop dues and sort off assume the elves will come in at night and keep things working.

Edit to add, I can only recall one motor issue and it was with the oldest one (2015? 2013? -- can't exactly remember). Resolved by replacing and has been fine ever since. All 3HP models.

[Handplanesandmore]

I spoke with SS last week regarding the differences between the ICS and PCS. I ended up purchasing the ICS 5hp, ICS mobile base, folding outfeed table and floating overarm dust collector.

• ICS table deeper 30” vs 27 PCS
• PCS trunnions, handle wheels etc are all scaled down on the Professional model which is why you see a major weight difference of about 200 lbs vs ICS
• ICS table and wings has thicker cast iron. 6mm nominal for the PCS vs 10-13mm for the ICS table and 8mm for the ICS wings.
• ICS has lock out tag out feature as well as interlocks on both cabinet doors which the Professional does not.
• ICS motor has a 5 year warranty, 2 years overall on the saw and the Professional is a 2 year overall, no additional motor warranty.

I can assure anyone looking to buy a ss that having used both models since 1998ish, I'd say the differences in cutting outcomes between them are minimal to zero for hobbyists. Of course, you'll need to pay more for better warranty, etc.

Simon

[Handplanesandmore]

All in all, if you are the primary user of the saw or at least have a small crew that uses it they can be properly trained you should have any significant issues. 

That's true of machines used on a shared basis (I think you meant shouldn't).

But everything you said speaks about your keen observations about and deep experience of the ss.

Simon

[Rob Young]

That's true of machines used on a shared basis (I think you meant shouldn't).



Simon

Yup. It is a necessary "evil" for a woodworking guild (club) who's primary mission is education. 

We have a core of volunteers that run the shop and do the day-to-day maintenance and a handful of people that do the repairs as needed. Pretty much every session has a few opportunities for educating members on a better way to perform an operation or at least a better way to set up a machine.

Them : "The blade keeps burning my cut. It must be dull. Please change it for a fresh blade."
Me : "How about I show you how to clean a blade because people like to cut dimensional pine for 'rustic' projects. Always check and clean a blade before deciding it is time to sharpen."
Them : "Hey, a clean blade made all the difference!"
Me : "Ta da!"

Et cetera, Et cetera, Et cetera...

[coolidge]

I can assure anyone looking to buy a ss that having used both models since 1998ish, I'd say the differences in cutting outcomes between them are minimal to zero for hobbyists. Of course, you'll need to pay more for better warranty, etc.

Simon

Hmmm I disagree.

[Handplanesandmore]

Hmmm I disagree.

Could you elaborate with examples on how the deeper table top or thicker materials, or the longer warranty produce better sawing outcomes with the ICS? The door thing is more a cosmetic thing, and doesn't have any effect on the saw. Or, examples of results that you have not been happy with after trying the PCS?

Both the ICS and PCS pass the penny test, so the vibration on the PCS should be fully acceptable to any hobbyist, if that matters.

Simon

[fredhargis]

Aram, did anything here pop up as a change in your plans?

[Aram]

Aram, did anything here pop up as a change in your plans?

ICS mobile base is new information. Otherwise, no, everything points to PCS. I'm getting hammered by house expenses, so whether I pull the trigger or not is an open question.