How to dry wet wood and how a tree works
#11
When a tree is growing just what part of the tree does the water go up from?

Is it the sap wood or the heart wood?

I am wondering this because it might be helpful in how to dry wood properly.

Arlin
As of this time I am not teaching vets to turn. Also please do not send any items to me without prior notification.  Thank You Everyone.

It is always the right time, to do the right thing.
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#12
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/products/public...eader_id=p All you'd want to know. Free, too. Chapters 3 and 4 will answer your questions.

Drying wood properly can be handled for success with a great deal of science, though some prefer to preserve some mystery by calling it an art.

The sapwood, BTW, carries the sap - water - heartwood is mostly structural, but does contain static moisture.
Better to follow the leader than the pack. Less to step in.
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#13
Here is a good article. Tree Parts

In summary, the outer layers carry water up the tree (Xylem Tubes) and down the tree (Pyloem Tubes)

These layers reside just under the outer bark.
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#14
On the same topic... I found this video to be interesting and exactingly fascinating.

How water gets up tree
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#15
I asked the questions because when maybe turning wet wood it is better with some sap wood or mostly heart wood to keep it stable while turning.

Since the sap wood holds most of the water then maybe avoiding it would be best?

I know the pith needs to always be cut out to keep it from major cracking but just how far is the pith considered? I think I read somewhere that the pith is actually considered the first 3 years of growth of a tree so that means about 3" of the inside of the tree needs to come out to make it the most stable.

Anyone else have any good ideas on controlling cracks in wet wood?

Or how about dry wood?

I know if the wood gets to hot it will heat checks but what else could happen to dry wood to get it to crack?

Arlin
As of this time I am not teaching vets to turn. Also please do not send any items to me without prior notification.  Thank You Everyone.

It is always the right time, to do the right thing.
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#16
Yes, a lot of science involved in drying wood, but there is an art and some luck needed too!

Starts with wood species and characteristics and what part of the tree wood comes from!

Straight grain wood found in the base might have normal cells. If the tree is bowed maybe not! Crotches, bowed base & limbs, (possible reaction or tension wood), and burls can have can have unpredictable shrinkage.

Regardless where wood grows on the tree drying wood basically a water removal process. Water leaves wood thru evaporation. Wood dries from the outside in. Water leave twice as fast from the ends then sides.

Understanding when and why you end seal green/wet wood very important.

If wood dries too fast get end checks & splits that’s why end seal! End sealing slows down the drying process but also need proper storage. Proper storage is anyplace out of the weather preventing direct sunlight and wet weather, strong winds but has good air circulation.

Where you live and annual relative humidity, time of year cut a tree down (sap running or not). Wood gains & loses moisture content due to rise or fall of relative humidity throughout it’s useful life.

The art & luck should be based upon where you live and coming up with a plan of action. My plan often changes based upon time of year, cutting down a tree or finding wood to turn and how process the wood before storing or turning.

Midwest Man really enjoyed that video!
Bill
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#17
I was also hoping this would help a lot of people in the future also who are just starting out turning.

Thank you for the comment
As of this time I am not teaching vets to turn. Also please do not send any items to me without prior notification.  Thank You Everyone.

It is always the right time, to do the right thing.
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#18
The sap wood will generally shrink more than the heart wood, so even end grain pieces can and will go oval. Generally there is also a pretty big difference in hardness between the two.

Applied science does help in wood drying, but the same methods do not work for all pieces of woods, or wood species, and local environment can play a huge role as well. This is why there is some 'art' involved. Of course, if we all had big labs with exactly controlled conditions, then it would be as much or maybe even more science than art.

robo hippy
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#19
Had you read the chapters mentioned you would recognize that you are getting bad information from several folks already. Water is either unbound, carried in the vessels and lumens of the cell structure, or it is bound, which is to say it forms weak Hydrogen bonds with the sugars making up the cellulose we call wood. The first is contained as in a sponge, and its loss is like letting it drip; the structure still maintains its shape. If, however, bound water is lost, the wood will shrink like the sponge left in the sun. With wood, the break point is around 30% moisture content compared to oven dry. Referred to as the FSP (Fiber Saturation Point), its where wood begins to lose bulk.

More air in the earlywood, between the latewood rings, so the bulk of shrinkage occurs there. Our "expert" in another thread referred to tangential/radial differences as if it were the reason wood splits. Mistaking the effect for a cause. If the % of earlywood is greater, the shrink will be greater. Depending on the orientation of the rings, it follows a pattern recognizable to anyone who's ever bought a 2X4.



What you see here happens in macro and micro, which is why wood with thinner earlywood (reaction wood) and gnarly figure distorts differently than straight-grained wood, though for the same reason. The reason a spindle turning ovals is obvious, in spite of deformation toward sapwood, no matter what is said, and the frown in the bottom should remind you of any bowl ever cut across the heart.

The first growth in woody plants doesn't really form "pith" as we find in non-woody plant stems. Juvenile wood is a better way to refer to it, as its composition is the same as the rest of the surroundings, just a bit less organized. You may, as I show in another thread, use the full slab cross-section if you take advantage of your scientific knowledge of the mechanical stresses imposed by differential shrink. The two most common, though of secondary concern after shape - are providing an environment with controlled RH like the bagging methods, and slowing the loss rate (10-12X versus endgrain on the face/quarter) at the surface of end grain through coating. This keeps the rate of loss slower, and the wood on the outside plastic, so it can adjust to changes in shape without forming end checks. No such thing as "heat" checks, BTW, the cause is shrink due to loss of moisture and wood contraction. Heated air carries more absolute moisture, so lowers the RH and increases the rate of loss on bound water. You can boil wood dry without checks, you can even oven dry it. Not the heat, the humidity.

REALLY good scientific information in the reference. I highly recommend it for any turner, because it will dispose of some of the mythology being repeated, and minimize the luck required to avoid self-destruction of your turnings.

Oh yes, you can avoid cracks by keeping the wood bulked. Water or PEG, polycryl, and so forth promise that. Or, you can dry it and keep it that way.
Better to follow the leader than the pack. Less to step in.
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#20
Good, informative post. Significantly, the illustration is excellent. All woodworkers should have that illustration imprinted on their DNA.
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