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+-- Thread: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question (/showthread.php?tid=7341953)
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - knockknock - 09-01-2018
I don't know where you are getting your traditional thinking from. But Studley got it correct for his tool chest. Look at the construction, there isn't much pushing the top up or the bottom down. The hangers are attached to the sides, and there will be a large force trying to rip the hinge side out of the front half.
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/blasts2015/studleyphotos.html
https://lostartpress.com/products/virtuoso
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Tony Z - 09-01-2018
The end tables I built nearly a decade ago, that I'm sitting next to, were built that way, but as half lap. Don't remember where I read it, but the force on the drawer front, is from pulling, and construction with the tails going towards the front, resists the front being pulled from the sides.
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Handplanesandmore - 09-01-2018
(09-01-2018, 02:55 AM)knockknock Wrote: I don't know where you are getting your traditional thinking from. But Studley got it correct for his tool chest. Look at the construction, there isn't much pushing the top up or the bottom down. The hangers are attached to the sides, and there will be a large force trying to rip the hinge side out of the front half.
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/blasts2015/studleyphotos.html
https://lostartpress.com/products/virtuoso
Tradition is defined by the practice of people who build cabinets. With a very few exceptions including the Studley Chest I quoted in my last post, wall-mounted cabinets in general feature tail boards as the sides. You can check out the works of all the well-known dovetailers or cabinet makers such as Krenov. If you have FW, check out their archive for the dovetailed cabinets.
Or, Google "cabinet dovetail", and you will plenty examples of cabinets with tailed sides rather than pinned ones.
You're right about Studley getting his joints right (I did not say he was wrong in my last post, I was using his as an example to support my point about different ways of doing things), but he was right only because the hangers are mounted to the sides. He overcame, as some others did, the joinery concern with a solution. This point also illustrates why building a cabinet with tails as sides is the usual (traditional) way, because the mounting won't be limited to the sides. Sometimes, you may prefer to hang a cabinet by its top, or sometimes the Studley solution simply won't work, and in those cases, tails (as sides) rock!
Simon
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Derek Cohen - 09-01-2018
Once the joinery is glued, it does not make any difference which direction the dovetails run.
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Handplanesandmore - 09-01-2018
(09-01-2018, 10:02 AM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Once the joinery is glued, it does not make any difference which direction the dovetails run.
Regards from Perth
Derek
That's true, Derek...in normal settings. I have seen drawers made with pins on the sides (by mistake?), but they were relatively new and so the test of time was not known.
The joint orientation itself and even the glue are not the primary concerns in a stable environment. But, in situations where seasonal wood movement is drastic, dovetails are poorly executed (gaps filled with glue and sawdust), and the load is severe, a tails-on-the-sides approach will give the added insurance that the cabinet on the wall will survive unless the wood itself fails.
Depending on what is to be displayed or kept in the cabinet, I would not advise anyone to hang a cabinet by its top unless the joint itself will hold even in a partial glue failure, or a failure of the hanging will cause little upset to the owner.
Simon
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Derek Cohen - 09-01-2018
Simon, my saw till is an example of dovetails-the-wrong-direction. This was built about 12 or so years ago ...
![[Image: Sawtilldimensions.jpg]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Sawtilldimensions.jpg)
It is still up and a lot fuller (!)
Regards from Perth
Derek
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Handplanesandmore - 09-01-2018
(09-01-2018, 08:19 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Simon, my saw till is an example of dovetails-the-wrong-direction. This was built about 12 or so years ago ...Another fine example of the exceptions, shall we say.
It is still up and a lot fuller (!)
Regards from Perth
Derek
That reminds me of seeing a Krenov's cabinet using dowel joinery with the top glued to the endgrain of the sides. Usually this is not the "right" way of a dowel joint because the joint tension being in line with the dowels in the endgrain. But he did it fine, as the cabinet sits on a stand. Again, illustrating that we can't look at any joinery arrangement in isolation.
That faded Studley Chest poster in your shop must be an original!
Simon
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Tony Z - 09-02-2018
Mabe we ought to just remember to not cut tails on the long grain edge, or to hot make them overly steep?
RE: Handcut dovetail gauge lines question - Handplanesandmore - 09-02-2018
(09-02-2018, 04:24 AM)Tony Z Wrote: Mabe we ought to just remember to not cut tails on the long grain edge,
You are not kidding!
https://www.instructables.com/id/Hand-Cut-Dovetails-for-Dummies/
You know what is sad about that? Before someone pointed out what was wrong with the instructions, people were admiring his work with their comments!
When it comes to blind worshiping, the social media is full of people (not necessarily just woodworkers) who do that everyday and everywhere. Ignorance is unbelievably prevalent theses days. The blind leading the blind!
Simon