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+-- Thread: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer (/showthread.php?tid=7342656)
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Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - HomerLee - 09-23-2018
I found a #7 Bailey jointer at an estate sale and was surprised at what I discovered when I got it home (poor lighting at sale). I usually try to determine the type and approximate date a plane was made. Here is what I discovered:
The casting is corrugated and marked "Bailey" with 7 and "Made in Canada".
The casting is of normal thickness and has the frog adjuster screw.
There is no raised ridge at either end of the sole casting.
There are no patent dates on anything.
Lever cap has a patent number on bottom.
The frog is the style Stanley started making in about 1932, after the "sweetheart" era.
The iron is stamped with the usual Stanley logo, with a sweetheart stamp underneath, and "Made in Can" under that.
The lever arm has the letters horizontal.
The knob and tote nuts and depth adjuster are brass with the usual knurling on the adjuster.
The knob is rosewood, is tall, and sits on a raised ring in the casting.
The tote is some other light colored hardwood that was stained and finished.
Neither tote nor knob was painted.
I have heard Stanley owned a factory in Canada and that the "sweetheart" logo was stamped on planes made there long after the sweetheart era for USA made planes. I'm guessing, solely on the tote not being rosewood, that it is a WWII plane, yet the tote could have been a replacement. It is my understanding that during the war Stanley produced planes with all sorts of characteristics.
Anyone have any better ideas about date and type?
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - jstraw - 09-23-2018
I have a Canadian #4. This article has some information for you. Best bet to date it is to take the key features to compare to the U.S.
https://www.plane-dealer.com/single-post/2017/01/24/The-Mystery-of-Stanley-Canada
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - Admiral - 09-23-2018
Hmmmm, dating a #7. All I can offer is she certainly knows she's not a #10, so I'd keep it simple and start with dinner and a movie.
Sorry, couldn't resist....
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - Stwood_ - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 11:50 AM)Admiral Wrote: Hmmmm, dating a #7. All I can offer is she certainly knows she's not a #10, so I'd keep it simple and start with dinner and a movie.
Sorry, couldn't resist....
And my thoughts were.......why date a #7??
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - Admiral - 09-23-2018
(09-23-2018, 12:43 PM)Stwood_ Wrote:
And my thoughts were.......why date a #7??
Because theres NFW I'm a 10!!!!!!
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - HomerLee - 09-23-2018
I've got 10 beat with my 10 1/2.
Seriously, this thread seems to have gotten off track. Or maybe not.
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - Admiral - 09-24-2018
(09-23-2018, 10:42 PM)HomerLee Wrote: Seriously, this thread seems to have gotten off track. Or maybe not.
Ok, sorry for the sidetrack. So here's my best view on your plane; I pulled out my printouts and took a look. First, you say the frog is the T16 design (with hollows as opposed to a fully machined face. However, the sole has characteristics of a T15 (raised ring for knob and no raised rib at toe and heel). However, the mating surface on the sole for the frog should be different if using the T16 frog. The patent date on the lever cap only appeared on the early versions of T16 planes, and should be 1918750 (it was eliminated after a year or two) and should have a kidney shaped hole (you didn't mention that). The the stained hardwood knob may be simply one of import duties making rosewood difficult to obtain in Canada, but the brass on the post nuts eliminate it as a wartime plane as steel screws were used and the tote and knob were drilled differently to accommodate that change (also, you noted no thicker casting of the sole).
All that being said, its been my experience that the type studies are somewhat of a sloppy timeline, as it took a while for design changes to fully make their way into the production stream - remember, Stanley made an incredible variety of planes; additionally, Stanley was in a competitive business and often used up their parts inventory first before introducing new feature/design characteristics. So the SW iron is to be expected as they were simply using up stock as the irons likely came from the US, or if not, they simply didn't change the stamping press. The only thing I can say about the sole, since it does have "made in Canada" on it, is the patternmaker, when making the change for the frog design mating, simply forgot to put in the raised rib at the toe and heel in the new casting pattern, being more concerned about the right mating for the new frog.
So I think you have a very early T16, making the transition between types. Hope that helps...
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - HomerLee - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 06:45 AM)odmiral Wrote: Ok, sorry for the sidetrack. So here's my best view on your plane; I pulled out my printouts and took a look. First, you say the frog is the T16 design (with hollows as opposed to a fully machined face. However, the sole has characteristics of a T15 (raised ring for knob and no raised rib at toe and heel). However, the mating surface on the sole for the frog should be different if using the T16 frog. The patent date on the lever cap only appeared on the early versions of T16 planes, and should be 1918750 (it was eliminated after a year or two) and should have a kidney shaped hole (you didn't mention that). The the stained hardwood knob may be simply one of import duties making rosewood difficult to obtain in Canada, but the brass on the post nuts eliminate it as a wartime plane as steel screws were used and the tote and knob were drilled differently to accommodate that change (also, you noted no thicker casting of the sole).
All that being said, its been my experience that the type studies are somewhat of a sloppy timeline, as it took a while for design changes to fully make their way into the production stream - remember, Stanley made an incredible variety of planes; additionally, Stanley was in a competitive business and often used up their parts inventory first before introducing new feature/design characteristics. So the SW iron is to be expected as they were simply using up stock as the irons likely came from the US, or if not, they simply didn't change the stamping press. The only thing I can say about the sole, since it does have "made in Canada" on it, is the patternmaker, when making the change for the frog design mating, simply forgot to put in the raised rib at the toe and heel in the new casting pattern, being more concerned about the right mating for the new frog.
So I think you have a very early T16, making the transition between types. Hope that helps...
Very interesting Admiral! You are exactly right on the patent number and kidney shape! What printouts are you referring to?
Many thanks!
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - rwe2156 - 09-24-2018
Hyperkitten should help you
Or Patricks Blood and Gore
RE: Dating Very Unusual Bailey #7 Jointer - Admiral - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 09:53 AM)HomerLee Wrote: Very interesting Admiral! You are exactly right on the patent number and kidney shape! What printouts are you referring to?
Many thanks!
I've gathered many posts and articles on Stanley planes over the last 25 or so years (from back in the day of rec.woodworking and the old tools list, but I'm dating myself....) and printed them out (I'm sort of a hard copy type of guy...). I keep them in a binder down in the shop for when I want to figure something out.