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+-- Thread: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made (/showthread.php?tid=7347696)
If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Arlin Eastman - 04-14-2019
What metals and how would you make them???
1. Keeps an edge?
2. Will sharpen?
3. Metals sandwiched between?
4. Very hard?
5. ?????
Just what would be the perfect combo???
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Timberwolf - 04-14-2019
(04-14-2019, 02:13 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: What metals and how would you make them???,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
1. Keeps an edge?
2. Will sharpen?
3. Metals sandwiched between?
4. Very hard?
5. ?????
Just what would be the perfect combo???
Like most things in life, all have "trade-offs".....good points and bad......there are NO "perfect" metals that I know of...
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - TGW - 04-14-2019
(04-14-2019, 02:48 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Like most things in life, all have "trade-offs".....good points and bad......there are NO "perfect" metals that I know of...
The perfect chisel would be easy to sharpen very sharp and cut right through a five inch nail without getting dull.
The best that can be done at the present state of metallurgy is a whole different matter.
My old 1 1/4 inch firmer chisel made my Erik Anton Berg in Eskilstuna Sweden is as close to ideal as anything can come at present. Good quality high carbon steel forge welded to a twice as thick mild steel body and hardened and tempered just right.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - AHill - 04-14-2019
PM-V11. Best steel I've experienced for the best balance of sharpness, edge durability, and ease of sharpening. And I've used Japanese White Steel, O1, A2, D2, and a host of proprietary vintage tool steels. If acquisition cost is an issue, O1 runs a close second. I think in the long run, the PM-V11 is more economical because it saves you time honing and/or stropping to maintain the edge.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Aram - 04-14-2019
(04-14-2019, 02:13 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: What metals and how would you make them???
1. Keeps an edge?
2. Will sharpen?
3. Metals sandwiched between?
4. Very hard?
5. ?????
Just what would be the perfect combo???
Depends what I'm using it for. For example for my home made wooden planes, I love Hock's O1 blades. Easy to hone, takes a great edge, and lass a decently long time. On the other hand, I use my LN low angle jack for shooting end grain. I hate honing the iron, because of the hassle of getting it perfectly aligned and square afterwards. So for that, I like how well the A2 blade holds an edge, even though it's a pain in the neck when I do need to hone it.
For chisels, Japanese and I never looked back. Easy to hone but for whatever reason, holds an edge for a long time.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Admiral - 04-14-2019
I'm an O1 guy. I don't mind freshening up an edge from time to time.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - cputnam - 04-14-2019
Jack said it best - there is no perfect. From the steels I've tried, I'll take O1 for paring and PMV-11 for everything else. I just haven't tried PMV-11 with a 20º angle yet.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Timberwolf - 04-14-2019
(04-14-2019, 08:33 PM)cputnam Wrote: Jack said it best - there is no perfect. From the steels I've tried, I'll take O1 for paring and PMV-11 for everything else. I just haven't tried PMV-11 with a 20º angle yet................
O1 is not "perfect" but it has been the "old Reliable" for many years for a good reason...inexpensive, easy to work, easy to harden and temper to whatever degree necessary, and very forgiving when repairs are needed due to "over heating the steel" etc...You can take it from "dead soft" to file hard in minutes usually with nothing more than a Mapp torch, a clay flower pot and a can of oil..
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - Arlin Eastman - 04-15-2019
There are tons of metals out there and just wondering if any of them might work like M42, M8 steel or others like that.
Something like O1 or A2 inside and M8 outside. Kind of thinking out the box.
RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made - adamcherubini - 04-15-2019
(04-14-2019, 02:13 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: What metals and how would you make them???
1. Keeps an edge?
2. Will sharpen?
3. Metals sandwiched between?
4. Very hard?
5. ?????
Just what would be the perfect combo???
Super easy answer. Good late 18th c, early 19th c hand made laminated plane irons and large chisels..
The laminated blades had super high carbon steel that got pretty hard, but remained easy to sharpen due to there being very little of it in the thickness. The bulk of the blade including most of the bevel was wrought iron or low carbon steel.
Edge holding has to do with grain size and impurities, that's why late 18th, early 19th when the steel was of better quality. By the mid 19th c they started dumbing down edge tools, drop forging etc. The laminated blades are said to possess shock absorbing properties that help with edge retention.
The act of cold working steel typically has the (in the 18th c probably unintended) effect of reducing grain size which both strengthened the steel (by reducing pockets of impurities) while allowing the steel to take fine smooth edges.
The lack of pro level customers, the race for market share and mass production ended the age of high end hand made edge tools in the UK.