Pros and cons of Byrd head on J/P

[JGrout]

so you don't like having the ability to do something that is simple 

fine. 

It makes so much more sense now....

and I have long held the position that all work should be planed on both sides for as long as I can recall. it is not a unique to anyone who operates a jointer regularly ....

[Phil Thien]

Phil,
No, that was the opinion of the second guy that I mentioned above.  I wish I could find the post or remember the posters screen name.  Joe's position has always been:  "if you buy a carbide insert head for the jointer you are too stupid to learn the stick method or have MMTB."  His words is previous threads.


The "jab" was not about "his ability to work without said accessory".  Nobody called him stupid or said his opinion doesn't count because they didn't agree.  The "jab" is about his attitude towards everybody that disagrees with him on spiral cutter heads on jointers.  I'm still waiting for proof of more that 2 readable negative opinions of spiral heads on jointer.

Nope, I've absolutely seen Joe make the point ( a # of times) that jointer finish doesn't matter when in the end you're getting planer finish anyhow.

And you can't expect people that have already invested in spiral heads to tell you they don't like them, that just isn't the way the psyche works.  They're invested, financially and emotionally.

But we can run things down ourselves...

Segmented Pros:  (1) Quiet.  (2) Long-lasting cutters that can be rotated.

Segmented Cons:  (1) Expensive, especially if you're upgrading from straight and not buying new. (2) Changing segments can be a PITA, sometimes requiring complete removal, cleaning of seats, reinstallation. (3) May trigger purchase of a torque wrench. (4) Resulting surfaces can be a bit wavy, which is a problem if you're going straight from jointer to glue-up. (5) Requires more horsepower.

Segmented Sorta Doesn't Matter:  (1) Superior finish quality, because most stock is likely going through the planer anyhow.

Am I missing anything?

I can see Joe's point.  Seems like trading one set of problems for a different set of problems, at a considerable expense.

[PaulJohnstone]

Most of us our hobbyists.. If you want to get a Byrd head on any tool.. by all means go for it.. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, as a hobbyist, I am ok with changing my jointer knives maybe every 12-24 months. It is not difficult nor time consuming.
As others said, it goes through the planer on both sides anyhow.

Now I have made a  lot of frivolous and wasteful purchases in my life, so I am not calling a Byrd head wasteful at all.


Because honestly, I don't think a lot of these "should I buy X" threads really have anything to do with economics, since most of us are hobbyist and are spending disposable money.

[Phil Thien]

Because honestly, I don't think a lot of these "should I buy X" threads really have anything to do with economics, since most of us are hobbyist and are spending disposable money.

I have no problem with people spending their hard-earned money however they like.  But I think it is wise to always consider that newbies are reading these threads, too.  So best to be accurate about cost/benefit.

[handi]

Put a Byrd head on my 6" Delta jointer several years ago. 
I also put one on a 16" Invicta jointer in the last shop I worked at. 

You will NOT regret it. It is smoother, quieter and takes A LOT less effort to push across, so it is safer.
You can joint stock in either direction without tearing when you have to go against the grain when squaring legs and such. You will not tear out when the grain changes along the length of a board or around most knots.

I would love to put one on my planer to match, but the 13" Ryobi I have is not worth it!

[jteneyck]

You guys should stop bickering over an issue that has no bearing on my decision.  I am able and up to now have been willing to change the straight blades on my planers and jointers.  It's a simple task and I can do it in less than 30 minutes if I have a set of spare blades ready to go.  It's nearly trivial on the MM J/P with the factory setting jig.  

I am not a normal hobbiest; I probably run as much wood over my J/P in a year that most hobbiests would in 10.  So I accumulate knicks a lot faster than you might expect.  I've changed the knives on this machine 3 times in the past year because of knicks.  Changing them is simple; it's the sharpening that I really hate.  Yes, I could send them out, but that's nearly as much effort as just sharpening them myself, so I do.  

Also, we're talking about a J/P here, not a jointer.  The knives do double the work of a separate jointer and planer.  That helps drive the decision to go with the Byrd head.  Reducing tear out has great appeal as well.  And this Byrd head, if it fits my machine, is new but priced at a nice savings because someone backed out of the purchase after it was made and FS-35's aren't all that common. 

So some say a segmented head draws more power, some say less.  Perfect. 

John

[Phil Thien]

So some say a segmented head draws more power, some say less.  Perfect. 

John

There have been a couple of comparisons I've seen and one of them involved tripping an overload, I believe. My recollection was that discussion was here, at Woodnet, a few years ago. But here is a link to another site with a similar discussion:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Tr...a_New.html

There were also some discussions of a similar nature at sawmillcreek.org. Google "byrd shelix tripping overload" for links.

In my experience, carbide just can't be sharpened to the same degree as HSS, so more power required there.

But more importantly, the geometry of the cut is completely different. The orientation of the bevel (of a HSS knife) is the opposite of a segment, so that could certainly account for some power differences.

And finally, there is the cutting period, which for the segmented cutting is rather continuous compared to the HSS knife.

Have you investigated any mods for slowing your feed rate?

[EdL]

Having only one person near me to sharpen blades pushed me to go helical on my jointer....Duane is in his mid 80's, suprised he still does it. A good cutter grinder is hard to find, the commercial ones just want to throw your blades on the cnc and grind away, when Duane sharpens, he spends the time to remove only whats needed, giving me more bang for the buck on tooling.

Jointer & planer share the same inserts.....makes my life easier.

Ed

[fredhargis]

John, just curious...how big is the motor on that machine? One other though: there is a Mini Max discussion forum. I joined it when I bought my bandsaw, you may find someone there who has actually installed the Byrd in your machine to get a hands on opinion. That forum is a Yahoo group; Mini Max Owner's group.

[jteneyck]

Fred, I believe it's about 3.8 hp. The MM forum idea is a good one. Thanks. I know of several folks who have put a Byrd head on their MM machines, though I'm not positive if any are the same model. As far as I know, no one was disappointed.

John