Honing techniques?

[Rob Young]

Kryptonite works best.

Regards from Perth

Derek

What about the pyramid hats?  Can I wear one of those too?



(not me, mine looks better and has a scale model of the Sphinx on the side)

[Timberwolf]

I hone freehand using a bare leather strop. I am curious to find out how other folks prefer to hone chisels and plane blades.

.......................
Not to be "picky" but it seems to me there is some confusion about "honing" and "stropping"...IMO, to "hone" is to abrade or "wear away" metal to form a sharp cutting edge..This is done by rubbing the steel on a material harder than the steel, usually {but not always} a "stone" of some sort....After honing, a "wire edge" {aka burr} is formed, which can be removed by "stropping"...usually on leather but many materials {even paper} can also be used...Stropping removes the wire edge and more importantly, polishes and refines the arris which, if done correctly, produces a sharp edge...
Don't ask me to define the word "sharp"..I can't define it...but I know it when I see it.....

[hbmcc]

.......................
Not to be "picky" but it seems to me there is some confusion about "honing" and "stropping"...IMO, to "hone" is to abrade or "wear away" metal to form a sharp cutting edge..This is done by rubbing the steel on a material harder than the steel, usually {but not always} a "stone" of some sort....After honing, a "wire edge" {aka burr} is formed, which can be removed by "stropping"...usually on leather but many materials  {even paper} can also be used...Stropping removes the wire edge and more importantly, polishes and refines the arris which, if done correctly, produces a sharp edge...
   Don't ask me to define the word "sharp"..I can't define it...but I know it when I see it.....
 

Or, can't see it! Per the Schwarz-mite. So true, since I am losing my up close and very personal without glasses vision. If it glitters, go back and hone some more. 

BTW, you are right and I was wrong. I forget that my FIL's persuader belt is really two belts, one impregnated with abrasive. I don't use straight razors, however.

[Derek Cohen]

.......................
Not to be "picky" but it seems to me there is some confusion about "honing" and "stropping"...IMO, to "hone" is to abrade or "wear away" metal to form a sharp cutting edge..This is done by rubbing the steel on a material harder than the steel, usually {but not always} a "stone" of some sort....After honing, a "wire edge" {aka burr} is formed, which can be removed by "stropping"...usually on leather but many materials {even paper} can also be used...Stropping removes the wire edge and more importantly, polishes and refines the arris which, if done correctly, produces a sharp edge...
Don't ask me to define the word "sharp"..I can't define it...but I know it when I see it.....

Jack, it is possible that "strop" and "hone" are used interchangeably. Many strops are used with compound, and this, in effect, turns them into an abrasive hone. Stropping alone does not remove a wire. The wire is reduced in thickness by higher grits until the join becomes weak enough to fail. The alternative to this is to force the wire away from the blade, and this can leave a jagged edge behind. Consequently, there is mich value in extnding sharpening into the high grits to reduce the wire size and thereby avoid ragged edges.

My definition of sharp is "smooth" - the smoother an edge, the sharper it is.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alan S]

Roy Underhill put it something like this, a few years back, with respect to a sharpened edge:

"If you see something, you've got nothing.  But if you see nothing, you've really got something!"

[Derek Cohen]

I hone freehand using a bare leather strop. I am curious to find out how other folks prefer to hone chisels and plane blades.

This is a longish reply, a copy of a post I made on my website very recently. I think it is germaine to your question, and some here may find it useful ....

Deciding which Sharpening Strategy



The problem with sharpening threads on forums is that they all end up the same way - a million different methods and recommendations ... proving that everyone is wrong and I am the only one with the secret to the right way to do this!  

When deciding on a sharpening strategy, it is important to consider the type of steel you are sharpening. The softer steels, such as O1 (including laminated blades, even the Japanese with very hard cutting layers) can be honed on the full face of the bevel. However the harder and more abrasion-resistant steels, such as A2 and PM-V11, really need to be sharpened with a microbevel. The microbevel may either be a tiny secondary bevel or it may be a product of honing on the face of a hollow grind.

Generally, secondary bevels are easier to do with a honing guide if you are starting out, or if you have no intention of developing the handskills involved. With the latter, lifting the blade a couple of degrees as you move to the next higher grit, requires some practice to achieve relative accuracy, and for this reason fewer stones are preferred (less error involved).

For those freehand honing directly on the hollow, as I do, the process is made quicker if the hollow is done well. The best hollows are those that leave very little steel to hone, and the edge is straight. A straight edge may not require a coarse stone (eg 1000 grit) to straighten it before moving to a middle stone (eg 6000 grit).

The process is similar when using a honing guide: a straight primary bevel can be more easily converted to a secondary bevel with a middle stone if there is little work to do. This is why grinders such as the Tormek, belt grinders, and dry grinders with CBN wheels score so highly - they leave a cleaner and straighter primary bevel. Tormek blade guides, and similar blade holders, such as the Veritas, also facilitate a straighter grind and edge. Excellent work may be done freehanding and with white and pink wheels, but these do require more hand skill. 

More commonly, for those starting out, the magic bullet is not a great grinder or the best honing guide or the stones one uses. The magic bullet is knowing what to do, and what to do is to create a wire edge each time you hone a bevel (whether primary, secondary or tertiary). That is a guarantee that you are honing to the edge of the blade, and that is what you MUST do to create a sharp edge. All the above comments are geared towards achieving that wire. Anything less and all you are doing is polishing above the cutting edge. It looks pretty but is dull.

Honing on a full bevel is easiest when the steel is soft, and this is especially important if using the slower cutting media, such as oil stones. I included laminated Japanese blades in this category since the backing layer is often very soft cast iron and the hard cutting later is very thin - essentially the same deal as a honing on a secondary bevel.

Paul Sellers once posted a confronting video in which he sharpened plane blades with a 250 grit medium. The planes cut. Some (like myself) commented that this was not a true representation of sharpening needs, that is, the wood was soft and straight grained. But the point is that even a low grit can do the job. 16000 grit waterstones are not automatically the answer. 

The other recommendation is that what ever you use, use it for one year before you make any further changes. It takes time to get the best out of something.

For the record, I mainly use a worn 600 grit diamond Eze-lap diamond stone (which does not get used until the third honing - and can be delayed longer if I use my hardwood strop more frequently before the blade dulls appreciably), Medium and Ultra-Fine Spyderco ceramic stones, and end with Lee Valley green compound on a hardwood strop. I hollow grind on a 180 grit CBN wheel on a half speed dry grinder. This system has been in place a few years now and I have not wished to change it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Timberwolf]

Jack, it is possible that "strop" and "hone" are used interchangeably. Many strops are used with compound, and this, in effect, turns them into an abrasive hone. Stropping alone does not remove a wire. The wire is reduced in thickness by higher grits until the join becomes weak enough to fail. The alternative to this is to force the wire away from the blade, and this can leave a jagged edge behind. Consequently, there is mich value in extnding sharpening into the high grits to reduce the wire size and thereby avoid ragged edges.

My definition of sharp is "smooth" - the smoother an edge, the sharper it is.
...............................
Derek, when a wire edge is forced to bend a sufficient number of times,  the metal "work hardens" to the point that it "breaks away" from the edge..You can demonstrate this by bending a paper clip to the point that it breaks..If the stropping continues after the wire edge is removed, the edge continues to be polished to whatever the grit size is in the material it is being stropped against..Silica is one of the most common materials on earth and it is in almost everything, so in effect, ANY material can polish steel or any metal that is not as hard as silica, because it is present in just about everything., and it is one of the reasons we have "clean rooms"..it's in the air we breathe, on our skin, hair and clothes.... plain cardboard is an example of a material that can be used for stropping, and you can remove a wire edge by stropping the edge on cloth...I usually apply Cerium Oxide optical polishing powder or other fine abrasive to my strops to facilitate the process...I do agree that stropping "could" be considered a type of "honing" but IME they are not the same, and I think most will agree they are not used interchangeably.
    As far as the definition is concerned, a ball-bearing can be polished "smooth", but it's not a good cutting tool..If I was forced to define  the word, I guess I would say a "one atom edge" is "sharp", but I don't think it would stay sharp very long.
 
 

[Steve Hamlin]

Which nicely highlights why the ultimate sharp is unimportant: what matters is working sharp, which varies by tool and substrate. 
To prepare a mortise chisel to the same level as a finishing tool, when a doorstep will easily achieve working sharp wastes time, sharpening medium and metal... though of course many enjoy the process and so all is well

[hbmcc]

Where is Mr. Sharpener, when we need him?

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, when a wire edge is forced to bend a sufficient number of times,  the metal "work hardens" to the point that it "breaks away" from the edge..You can demonstrate this by bending a paper clip to the point that it breaks..If the stropping continues after the wire edge is removed, the edge continues to be polished to whatever the grit size is in the material it is being stropped against.

Hi Jack

This is why it is important to work through grits sizes to the point where the wire edge is diminished in size and ready to "float away". The jump from 1000 to 12000, which is common for some, may be an issue here, unless the wire is not permitted to grow large in the first place.

Any time the wire is allowed to "break off", there will be a ragged edge, and smoothing that will simply give you a polished ragged edge.

Stropping will remove a wire, but stropping is just a part of the process and should not be relied upon to leave a smooth edge. Watching the wire does that. A fine wire at the end does that.

Regards from Perth

Derek