Pocket Screws

[Cooler]

Would you climb under this vehicle?


https://youtu.be/Ahb9RUf6wtg

In his defense he did qualify the ramp by saying:

Published on Aug 18, 2017

WARNING: DO NOT BUILD A RAMP LIKE THIS THINKING YOU CAN DRIVE YOUR CAR ON IT AND THEN THINK YOU CAN GET UNDERNEATH YOUR CAR. YOU CANNOT. I BUILT THIS RAMP FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY. IT WILL NEVER BE USED AS A CAR RAMP, FOR PURPOSES OF WORKING UNDERNEATH A CAR.

[Stwood_]

I buy pocket screws by the box of 5000

[handi]

Understand that pocket screws are NOT a new invention. Kreg perfected the bit and jig for making pocket screw holes, and that has lead to them being much more usable. But if you look at antique tables, you will often see angled holes drilled into the sides of the apron and a screw run through into the top. Much easier than trying to drill straight through a 4 or 6" apron. 

I use pocket screws often enough. The deck of a cabinet, the top stretchers, anywhere the joint is not seen, why not? Do I use them for fine furniture? Not usually, but the latest article I wrote for Woodworker's Journal, coming out soon, features pocket screws.

[Steve N]

Understand that pocket screws are NOT a new invention. Kreg perfected the bit and jig for making pocket screw holes, and that has lead to them being much more usable. But if you look at antique tables, you will often see angled holes drilled into the sides of the apron and a screw run through into the top. Much easier than trying to drill straight through a 4 or 6" apron. 

I use pocket screws often enough. The deck of a cabinet, the top stretchers, anywhere the joint is not seen, why not? Do I use them for fine furniture? Not usually, but the latest article I wrote for Woodworker's Journal, coming out soon, features pocket screws.

I always throw out the Ancient Egyptian reference, adding they used wood pins rather than screws, not yet invented. But a tangible reference is found in the 1953 first edition of Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone by RJ DeChristiforo NO, not that Rick

The book was a gimme with a ShopSmith purchase from the days of the 10-ER through the MK-V. It featured a horizontal boring machine, and a tilting table, they just didn't have those cool screws yet
Set up correctly you could do pocket holes all day long. When I was with the road crews we used to add it to our demo, often was what a guy cited as his #1 reason to buy. Even some of guys who had stand alone tools, and were adding a MK-V for the boring, or some other option they liked. The trick then was knowing when to say WHOaaa big fella, and quit drilling, beside a much lower price point, Kreg has those nifty screws, depth stops, and those bits. HF gonna go nutz when the patent goes bye bye.

[FloridaRetiree]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Haven't heard the name Shopsmith in years.

Just checked and they are still in business and
have a nice web site.

The guy I used to partner with to do all my lathe work had one.

Also think DeChristiphoro's book is in my library as an early purchase.
They are all now in boxes so can't easily check.

[handi]

I always throw out the Ancient Egyptian reference, adding they used wood pins rather than screws, not yet invented. But a tangible reference is found in the 1953 first edition of Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone by RJ DeChristiforo NO, not that Rick

The book was a gimme with a ShopSmith purchase from the days of the 10-ER through the MK-V. It featured a horizontal boring machine, and a tilting table, they just didn't have those cool screws yet
 Set up correctly you could do pocket holes all day long. When I was with the road crews we used to add it to our demo, often was what a guy cited as his #1 reason to buy. Even some of guys who had stand alone tools, and were adding a MK-V for the boring, or some other option they liked. The trick then was knowing when to say WHOaaa big fella, and quit drilling, beside a much lower price point, Kreg has those nifty screws, depth stops, and those bits. HF gonna go nutz when the patent goes bye bye.

The technique I referenced has NOTHING to do with ancient Egypt. I have personally seen the pocket holes I talked about in furniture as old as the early 1800's. 
Over the years I have had the privilege to photograph and measure furniture in a couple of museums including the Girl Scout Museum in Savannah and the Whim Plantation in St. Croix. Both of those museums have pieces that feature this technique.

[JGrout]

Would you climb under this vehicle?


https://youtu.be/Ahb9RUf6wtg

no but I  also would not build a ramp that way either. 

The example is extreme to make a point. 

So no matter how much one might be skeptical of pocket hole joinery, I am of the opinion that it is perfectly acceptable when used in a proper application 

Joe

[GeorgeV]

What's wrong with pocket screws?   Are there disadvantages to using them?  They seem pretty handy for the amateur woodworker (like me). 

I'm  taking on a project that requires a number of precise M&T joints to increase my skill in that area.  But there are a bunch of other joints that don't lend themselves to M&T that look like they would be relatively easy with pocket screws, and they are all hidden.  Will I be cheating?

R.

At the risk of being?

 I dislike pocket screws and think that while they accomplish what is intended they inhibit the development of fundamental woodworking skills that provide for better joinery, i.e mortise and tenon.

Pocket screws are a shortcut that short changes the woodworker.

Just my $0.02 worth

[robert146]

George:...I kind of like your comment. It put a smile on my face. My current project has 24 M&T joints that I hope will increase my skill. So far, I've made six and the sixth one took half the time of the first. What I didn't realize was the difficulty of getting the exact, very precise location of each mortise. So I learned another lesson and everything came out exactly as it should. That said...when I get the frame complete I'll probably use pocket screws on the interior where they will not show. And I'll use them without guilt!

R.

[Steve N]

George:...I kind of like your comment.  It put a smile on my face.  My current project has 24 M&T joints  that I hope will increase my skill.  So far, I've made six and the sixth one took half the time of the first.  What I didn't realize was the difficulty of getting the exact, very precise location of each mortise.  So I learned another lesson and everything came out exactly as it should.  That said...when I get the frame complete I'll probably use pocket screws on the interior  where they will not show.  And I'll use them without guilt!

R.

So much for new skills eh





I still will say that M&T may not have been such an important joint if the Forefathers did have electricity, and metal screws, and some guy named Kreg had a plastics forming company back in 1545, or whenever. So saying it was the accepted way to do it, well, it was the only practical way to do it, given the tools they had to work with at the time. If they did have Festool, Kreg, and a whole lot more, history would have re-written itself. Shoving around planes, hand sawing, drilling, chopping, and paring is a lot more work than doing the same with electricity. Given that a guy was trying to make as many desks, dressers, tables, chairs or whatever he would have embraced the method that made him 30 pieces a month, rather than 6. Today the only guys doing it the "romantic way" with handtools, aren't in it for production, they are making crafted "one of's" for those with big wallets wanting it just like that one in the museum.......