Festool
#21
  Re: Re: Festool by JR1 (You may get a refeb ...)
I got a Domino several years back, and though it is not used all the time, when it is, I value it greatly! In retrospect, I would purchase one again.

Festoon is a slippery slope. The tools are generally at the top of their game for ergonomics as well as usefulness. This comes at a price. Are there other makes of tools equally to the task? Probably yes, but I doubt no company universally as well as Festool for hand-held power tools.

Personally, I now have about 4 or 5 of their tools, and my favorite is one of their jig saws.
Waiting to grow up beyond being just a member
http://www.metaltech-pm.com
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#22
  Re: Festool by Worthing (I've been out of the...)
They will occasionally drop the price on something for a short time, just before raising the price even more. I bought my Kapex that way. If you are not in a hurry, you just need to keep an eye on things, almost on a daily basis.

Joe makes a good point, but there is a flip side of the coin. I'm retired and a hobbyist. Woodworking is not my only hobby. So sometimes it isn't a question of time is money, it is time to pursue another hobby.

When I need money for a new tool or camera or fishing rod or whatever, I don't build another piece of furniture to sell to someone else. I spend a little time at my computer and let the Wall Street folks pay for it.

If my woodworking was putting food on the table (I'd go hungry

) I would be looking at it the way Joe does. Different strokes.


---
See ya later,
Bill
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#23
  Re: Re: Festool by Woodenfish (Have you ever had th...)
If you mean head to head for speed ?

Not with a Domino With Festool yes, see below.


If you mean for functionality

Yes

I have had occasion to see others work with Domino in field work and they either are good at it or they are learning.



I am presently working for a friend who has a garage full of Festool (saws, routers drills sanders) And just to expand my horizons I have been using that shop full of tools leaving my own in the truck.

so far I am finding that setups for multiple cutting activities routing and sawing waste a huge chunk of my functional time. IOW for what I have been tasked with this is taking about twice as long as it would if I were to use my own field setups and that includes setup and breakdown and cleanup time at the start and end of the day. There have been at least two occasions where I found the setup time for a single cut to be totally inefficient and went to the truck and set up what I needed, did the task and moved on in half the time....

Festool has it's place and I am positive I could get better at using it efficiently but for me the curve is steep. Learning on a paying job is not an efficient use of time......

Joe
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#24
  Re: Festool by Worthing (I've been out of the...)
The Domino is the one tool Festool offers that is totally unique to anything else on the market. There are systems that can do router-based M&T joints, but they are far more bulky and require a bit more setup than a Domino. I'm a hobbyist and I use my Domino a lot. It saves me a lot of time. It's deadly accurate, and for 90% of the M&T's I do, the Domino performs well. I've even used it vs. biscuits to align boards in large panels and for breadboard ends. The two tools in my shop I'll never get rid of are the Domino and my Festool TS75 track saw.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#25
  Re: Re: Festool by AHill (The Domino is the on...)



yes I suppose big and bulky would be a detriment.

then again
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#26
  Re: Re: Festool by JGrout ( [img]/ssl_proxy.php...)
Still takes 3-4x longer to set up than a Domino. Doesn't do mitered surfaces. Still needs a router. Requires the work piece to be clamped. Isn't green.

JGrout said:





yes I suppose big and bulky would be a detriment.

then again


Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#27
  Re: Re: Festool by AHill (Still takes 3-4x lon...)


the problem with the lovers is that there is no room for alternatives and logical function along with the ability to do without the whiz bang of the wow wee

As I said earlier you are either in with Domino or like me you understand that the world will not end if you do not have one.

Remember I am the whacko who never saw the point of a jointer wider than half my planer

I am pretty sure it is not just me
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#28
  Re: Re: Festool by JGrout ([br][br]the problem ...)
I disagree on your blanket assertation. Maybe you just don't understand the needs of a modern European craftsman and the curiosity of the product line by other American artisans? I find the Festool line well thought out for its innovative integration, quality, repeatability and dust collection. On the other hand I agree they are not the be all end all line of tools.

The best tool I own is the one between my ears that leads me to learn new methods using existing tools as necessary. That doesn't mean I can not appreciate something new or different or learn from other people who enjoy them. They sure are some fun tools to use. The more tools can evolve into safer, simpler, production enhancement devices means we all win.
Any free advice given is worth double price paid.
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#29
  Re: Re: Festool by Woodenfish (I disagree on your b...)
I agree that the best tool I own is the one between my ears

you want to believe that a tool makes you better

I like to believe that working with tools does not necessary mean I have to own it just because

Based on your assertions I would have to own a 40k door hanging machine capable of machining 500 doors per shift

I don't come anywhere near that, more like 50 a month so I do them with two jigs that cost about 200 bucks used

While that may seem extreme it really is not; no more so than a mortise machine I likely would use about 50 times more in a month than you do presently in making 50 doors

yet somehow I still muddle through
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#30
  Re: Re: Festool by JGrout (I agree that the bes...)
There is nothing wrong with how you work so long as it works for you. I find that loose tendons and a Domino let me work faster, particularly as they don't preclude my use of my router tables. But the problem with this is having to adopt loose tendon joinery as my preferred way of working. I find that this works for me, but, I am not a production shop. I don't give up other joinery methods, but still mainly use the Dommino. A lot of this understanding how the device and method wants to be used and adapting to it. If I were to invest big busks in a slot mortiser or a sliding table saw then I would adapt to what they do that is examplarery. No tool does everything well let alone very well, e.g. the multitool.
homo homini lupus
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." Yeats
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Quodcumque potest manus tua facere instaner opere Ecclesiastes
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