Mystery Box lids

[fredhargis]

The panels should have no movement to accommodate.

Worth repeating. I'm also guessing it's the way you did the panel...and just possibly gluing the whole thing in may have prevented,or reduced greatly, the warp.

[Papa Jim]

This also answers a question about his panel

   

Which I put into a tray

   

as a Christmas presant for my daughter.

When I do lids like this for small boxes I do not worry about support but one this size definately needed help. I used 3/16" ply and wrestled with whether to glue the panel to the ply with tite bond, contact cement or just let it float. I finally decided to just let it float. Now I'm glad I did when I see what the other choices could have led to.  It's been finished about a month and was delivered yesterday in perfect condition!

[jihhwood]

This also answers a question about his panel


Which I put into a tray


as a Christmas presant for my daughter.

When I do lids like this for small boxes I do not worry about support but one this size definately needed help. I used 3/16" ply and wrestled with whether to glue the panel to the ply with tite bond, contact cement or just let it float. I finally decided to just let it float. Now I'm glad I did when I see what the other choices could have led to.  It's been finished about a month and was delivered yesterday in perfect condition!

Glad to see that your floating panel worked out.  Your solution to let it float certainly has applicability to my problem.  I will keep it in mind.  Thank you.

[JerrySats]

Would MDF have been a better choice over plywood for the veneer panels?

[Steve Altman]

You're using a very thin substrate - not much thicker than your bandsawn veneers. And the lid frame is very thin and light, so it provides very little structural strength. You really have to be very careful if you want the lid to stay perfectly flat.

You may have to do exactly the same thing on the bottom of the panel as on the top. And you have to consider how you're cutting the veneers: If you're resawing 1" stock into veneer the pieces that come from the two surfaces of the lumber are going to be much more alike in moisture content, etc. than a piece coming from one surface and a piece that comes from the center of the stock. (How different these values are depends on what species you're using and how the lumber was originally milled.) So you might want to take that into consideration when deciding how long to wait before using your veneer (let it dry a while?) and/or which pieces to use for front and back of the lid.

And, though it might stay flat for a while, it may not stay that way forever. That sort of depends on the species of wood you're using and how it reacts to the changes of conditions in your house vs. the changes within the box. Which is why that lid should probably be taller - provides more strength in the long run.

Anyway, good luck. They're very pretty boxes.

[packerguy®]

Thanks for a clear explanation that makes sense.  I did use a thin plywood substrate (1/8 inch), and the colored strips I glued up were, as I recall, appreciably thicker than typical veneer.  So, as you suggested, my shop-made veneer may well have "overwhelmed" the ply substrate.  I think it's pretty clear that the frame material is not the culprit.  Nor are the finish or the hinges, etc.  It's got to be the veneered panel.  So . . . . it's back to the shop.  In each case, I'm going to remove the warped lid and make a new one, using a thicker substrate and shop-made veneer that's the same thickness as the conventional piece of veneer I've used on the underside of the lid.  If I'm careful and a little "creative", I may even be able to find good grain matches (lid-to-carcase) and even re-use the Soss hinges.  Wish me luck---and thanks again!

Ive found MDF works best....I use 1/4" stuff for things like that. Its more forgiving. I try to steer clear of plywood unless its really good quality and of many layers, like true BB. The cheaper stuff, I have found, doesn't have consistent veneers and no matter what you do almost always warps or cups somewhat. Gotta remember plywood has to be in equilibrium to stay flat. 

I use to think MDF was an issue since I hammer veneer, and the water would cause issues but I have figured out a series of steps that work great. I do the traditional hammer process but then wrap it in wax paper and put it in an old book press for 5 minutes (it cools down the glue really quick) and then put it on those painters triangles overnight (so air gets all sides and it dries evenly) Havnt had one warped panel since I started doing that.

[packerguy®]

This design for the tray is super nice! Well done.

[Alaric]

Before completely remaking the lids, first try cutting away the inside lip of the panel dado and try removing the panels and see what happens to the frames. You might yet save the frames. If it doesn't work you are out nothing except the effort.

[brianwelch]

No expert, but I agree with what Steve Altman said. Important to balance the assembly...it's done that way with custom door skins for just that reason...nice work

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

What about internal stresses that were slow to release after being cut?  I've had KD and indoor shop acclimated hard maple get really wonky on me after resawing it--especially from thicker stock.  Somewhere I had read that limb wood was prone to this.  Just brainstorming...