planner height 11
#21
. I wrote from a world most of you know nothing about, where 2 tenths of one thousandth make a difference. So my question is why be stuck in a rut? Why introduce problems into your work when they can be avoided? And to feeler gages, why do anything half butt.

Tom


The reason most of us do not care about 2 tenths of one thousandth of an inch is that the medium we work in will move more than that between  milling and fitting and that could be merely an hour in many cases 

I respect your views on metalworking and the abilities to gain precision you are working for, but in WW That is just not a requirement 

It may be the truth in metal   but for woodworkers it is merely a goal that is not worth the effort to reach. 

As for feeler gauges well I suppose half butt is better than no butt and frankly the difference between your dial and my feel are likely in the range of 2 tenths of one thousandth 

It is about consistency
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[Image: Image7.jpg]
[Image: Image8.jpg]

I believe the above pics are "consistent" enough for me to be able to reliably flatten stock and edge on pieces up to fourteen feet long. 

Not bad for a jointer that most max out at around 6-7'
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#22
In the bob vaughn video he did check the table to the cutterhead. It has to be checked and i understand that. The part of my planer that was not taken apart was the table so it is probably still factory set. I had many dial indicators which all got scrapped.
I wanted to set the obvious...the knives. Then, when ready, i would check the table to cutterhead. If it is out.....my adjustment seems very very tedious if at all possible. I think the chain has to come off a raising gear and the gear turned by one cog.
I also wont go crazy because i would only use my planer to get a board close to what i need. Any creeping up to a specific measurement i would use my hand tools.
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#23
They used to plow fields with a horse and the Amish still do. If yo want to use sticks and feeler gages then by all means do it.

I used the .0001 or .0002 as an illustration of the benefits of going the extra mile and the extra mile does make a difference. And that is what experience has thought me.Yes there is furniture that is still in good shape still around but how much isn't still around I have furniture here at the house that is the same today as it was 40 years ago what does it prove other than I did it right using power tools.

I don't go to hand planes and hand tools for fits and finish because I don't have to. Why because I go the extra mile.

Look, it is the same thing here as diet and exercise. Some will list why theirs is better which is okay, but with what is being learned everyday about health, some diets and exercise programs sill work but there is still room for improvement. Others will argue that they get enough exercise and don't need to be concerned about diet. Which again is okay it is your life.

I started a diet and exercise program about a year ago and I lost 40 pounds and am in the better shape than I have been in years. Yes it is not easy to get up and go to the gym or to say not the bowl of ice cream at 8 o'clock at night and yes it take extra time and work.  Why because I go the extra mile. Benefits at 71, quality of life, no hip or knee replacements, no blood pressure medicine. No medicine except for one pill a day for BPH which is an age related thing

The same holds true about smoking, some won't, some will give all kind of excuses why they don't quite  and some will justify why they do it.  but the fact is my father died of lung diese,  My mother died of a smoking related problem and my sister died of lung cancer.

Why did I write this in the first place?

1. To pass along information to anyone who will lessen.

2. I told the truth about a better way of doing something even though it takes more time.

3. I introduced everyone to a gage someone may have never considered. And several different applications it could be used on.

And lasty do with it what you will but don't discount it so as to stop someone else for learning and using it. The world isn't flat anymore.

Tom
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#24
Tom ,I see you use a Multi gauge, that's what Oneway calls it anyway, are they worth while ? When I got my first jointer a General 6", I used the stick method. It's painfully slow and I would say a bit inaccurate. For setting the knives after repairing a 8" General I purchased a couple of knife setting jigs, a magnet and a C micrometer that straddles the knives on the cutter. One worked ,one was a pain. Getting old, I've forgotten which one
Wink
Big Grin  


 With metal working it has to be right, however  woodworking merely has to look right.

You posted ahead of me, thanks Tom for sharing your expertise.

Ray
A man of foolish pursuits
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#25
so there is no room for debate? 

I think the concept of debate is good for the soul, good for the mind and good for the people listening to the debate. 

Maybe it is just me. 

If you would like when they stop messing with the site features ( as they are now) I will be happy to post a couple of pictures comparing the accuracy of the stick with a DI

I have no issue with it.



Joe
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#26
(01-17-2017, 01:08 PM)tablesawtom Wrote:  I told the truth about a better way of doing something even though it takes more time.


Tom

Lots of ways to accomplish the same result, better is rather subjective in this case. I tend to agree with Joe that it is "better" to get the head aligned with the table and not have to fiddle about at every knife change. Also, with the increasing popularity of insert tooling that is not adjustable anyways setting the head parallel to the table is the only way to do it.
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#27
Yes, I love the oneway gage and would beat a loss with out it. I went out in an ice storm to take the pictures. It was not the only reason reason but the deciding factor.

Yes, metal and wood are different entities but whether machining metal or milling ( saw mil,,mill work, etc) the process is the same. Whether setting up a metal

working machine to machine metal or setting up a planner to plane wood the same care should be taken.

The easiest way to correct problems in a project is not to allow them in the first place. When I build a project, whether wood or meta,l I try to evaluate what my different steps were and how I did them, as well as the final out come. I try to remember the things that I did right and how it did them. I also try to remember the things and ways of what I did that didn't turn out as well and then I try to change what didn't work well. It is called learning. So the question is why keep doing things the same way and expect a different outcome?

I tried some of the ways list and found them wanting. especially after I saw the oneway gage and recognized it usefulness.

So again my question is why, discredit that which you have never tried?

Tom
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#28
When I looked up the name of the gauge, having had seen it mentioned on Canadian Woodworking ,I read the four pages of polite discussion and the consensus reached. We are Canadians after all.  One of the posters went into the shop and made one out of hard maple, a $20 indicator, and a 8x32 screw. It was suggested to get the BusyBee (Grizzly) 22 piece set of indicator points to get a flat end.
A man of foolish pursuits
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#29
As I stated in the original statement. The same holds true to the jointer with an insert cutter head, the only adjustment is to the outfeed table and fence. Dealing with the cutter head is a moot point. On a note: the infeed table controls depth only not quality.

And the same hold true with the insertable planner. But the post is about setting the knives on a planner and jointer. A planner with inserts is a different entity from straight blades. If you have the money to invest in those cutter heads I am very happy for you. Personally I prefer straight knives and it is based on experience with inserted tooling used in metal working. That and the fact I can't afford the other and that I am happy with what I have.

If you wish to expound on the advantages - disadvantages please fill free. Again if you are blest with enough money to afford them let us know and I will rejoice with you.

Tom
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#30
(01-17-2017, 03:47 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: As I stated in the original statement. The same holds true to the jointer with an insert cutter head, the only adjustment is to the outfeed table and fence. Dealing with the cutter head is a moot point. On a note: the infeed table controls depth only not quality.

And the same hold true with the insertable planner. But the post is about setting the knives on a planner and jointer. A planner with inserts is a different entity from straight blades. If you have the money to invest in those cutter heads I am very happy for you. Personally I prefer straight knives and it is based on experience with inserted tooling used in metal working. That and the fact I can't afford the other and that I am happy with what I have.

If you wish to expound on the advantages - disadvantages please fill free. Again if you are blest with enough money to afford them let us know and I will rejoice with you.

Tom

I guess my real point is that, to me, machine setup is more important than compensating for poor machine setup by fiddling with the knives on every change.

As for my good fortune, I have a 16" European jointer/planer with a Byrd head. It is a completely extravagant machine in my hobby shop but it brings me pleasure every time I use it. Being as it is a combination machine, with insert tooling, the only way to make it work properly is with good fundamental setup procedure. The head was installed (by me) parallel to the non adjustable planning table and then the jointer tables were adjusted to be parallel to the head and coplanar and with the outfeed at the correct height.

"Better" to me means getting the expected results simpler, faster, and repeatably. Individually measuring the projection of both ends of 3 or 4 knives and adjusting them to correct for poor machine setup does not fit my definition of "better".
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