How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here.
#31
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
Sawstop has been around how long?  Bosch has built a better less expensive mousetrap that will be on the market in a few years.  I can't see this being an issue for long
Phydeaux said "Loving your enemy and doing good for those that hurt you does not preclude killing them if they make that necessary."


Phil Thien

women have trouble understanding Trump's MAGA theme because they had so little involvement in making America great the first time around.

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#32
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
15 years or a little less.

Bosch is not in the cabinet saw market (at least not yet), which is the cream of the SS sales.

SS is now part of the parent company of Festool and it will be interesting to see if Festool has a game plan to use the SS technology to produce other new Festool tools (such as SS bandsaws or SS mitre saws).

Exciting time ahead for those of us who want to see more -- not less -- finger saving features in other machines.

Simon
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#33
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
fewer cabinet shops as of late more contractors working out of pick ups.  Portable saws are probably a larger market and the market Bosch has shown an interest in.  Honestly given the choice of a device that doesn't trash the blade nor cost a fortune to replace.  Bosch with it's small explosive charge that is sold in a pair and takes less than a minute to get back operational is the clear winner in my mind
Phydeaux said "Loving your enemy and doing good for those that hurt you does not preclude killing them if they make that necessary."


Phil Thien

women have trouble understanding Trump's MAGA theme because they had so little involvement in making America great the first time around.

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#34
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
Did you know that SS sells more cabinet saws (PCS & ICS) than other SS models? As long as Bosch does not move into the cabinet saw segment, SS will still be the #1 cabinet saw maker in NA.

As for not breaking the blade, it is a plus in the Bosch design, few would argue about it.

Simon
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#35
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
Once the patent is gone no reason for bosch not to go after cabinet saw market if for no other reason to recoup the court costs they incurred.  I would also guess the market will demand the better tech
Phydeaux said "Loving your enemy and doing good for those that hurt you does not preclude killing them if they make that necessary."


Phil Thien

women have trouble understanding Trump's MAGA theme because they had so little involvement in making America great the first time around.

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#36
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
It is not difficult to get into cabinet saw production per se, but anyone who has used a good cabinet saw and the bad ones knows it is not that simple to produce a good saw at a price that people are willing to pay. We have many cabinet saws in the market and I have used at least 6 of them over the years extensively to say SS (ICS) is the top 1 among them (not talking about the finger saving tech).

Bosch and many others would have gone into the cabinet saw market without waiting for the SS patent to run out -- if indeed it was a simple thing to produce a good saw and still make a decent profit. They would not have let SS dominate the cabinet saw market in NA as a leader for more than a decade. The best hope is for Bosch to buy out an existing cabinet saw maker and build from there. Starting from scratch is not what I will see happening.

The quality of results between a contractor saw/jobsite saw (any brand) and a SS cabinet saw can be summarized as one for carpentry work and another for fine woodworking.


Simon
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#37
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
(08-09-2017, 12:35 AM)Bob10 Wrote: Once the patent is gone no reason for bosch not to go after cabinet saw market if for no other reason to recoup the court costs they incurred.  

In a concern as large as Bosch, legal fees are rounding errors in their financials.  That said, I'd love to see a new CS entrant, but the competition is brutal and margins are not as robust.  Witness Steel City, a flash in the pan.  Taiwan and China imports will kill you; Grizz is just biding its time awaiting patent expiry and they will likely add one.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#38
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
What is interesting is the timing.  

Sawstop has been on the market since 1999.  I'm assuming that the patent was issued at that time.

Patents last either 14 or 20 years.  

At most he would receive royalties for 1 or two years.

Or the government could do like they did with the child seat anchors and mandate that the inventor give up the rights and require the manufacturers to use the standard seat anchoring system.  (DOT did that.)

So he will get paid for one or two years while the manufacturers start making the conversions.  Or he will not get paid at all.

His big payday is gone.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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#39
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
As a long time SS user (almost since Day 1 (around 2002 or 2003 (?)) and also an owner now for 8 years (yes, I fear tablesaws), I welcome a new entrant that does not infringe SS's patents. I am 100% for seeing the finger saving feature in all new tablesaws whether it is a legal requirement or because of market competition. Look at the riving knife as an example. New woodworkers entering have been educated of the benefits of it and down the road, when everyone is offering finger saving tablesaw (at competitive prices), no one will make or sell a new tablesaw without a SS feature. (I just heard on the radio that Toyota will make lane departure alert, blind spot warning, cruise control monitoring, etc. as standard features for all its new passenger cars. It is doing it not because of any law but because of competition.)

When the patents expire,  I hope all saw makers will invent or copy a finger saving feature for their saws. This could have been the case if existing saw makers worked with Dr Gass on Day 1. We now know the inventor was not asking for the sky as some had alleged for his invention to be used by other makers.

Regarding the big payday, the check has already been cashed. Now that he has sold his company to the Festool's parent company, what happens in a few years time is no longer Dr Gass's concerns. It will be the new owner's. Why the new owner has agreed to buy SS knowing that the patents are to run out is a business secret that we don't know yet. I am optimistic that something good is coming out of it.

Simon
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#40
  Re: How much could SawStop get in royalty payments? The answer here. by Handplanesandmore ((98)  IEc, 2016b at ...)
(08-09-2017, 08:45 AM)Admiral Wrote:   Witness Steel City, a flash in the pan.  Taiwan and China imports will kill you; Grizz is just biding its time awaiting patent expiry and they will likely add one.
Do we still have any US-made new cabinet saws for the amateur market?

As far as I know, Delta is ASSEMBLED in the States, and all other popular quality cabinet saws for hobbyists (PM66 & SS) are made in Taiwan. Frankly, SS is a miracle that it can deliver such a quality cabinet saw at that kind of price with its level customer support. To be good at one (or even two) of the three is not so difficult, to be good at all three at the same time and at all times is a different story.

Simon
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