How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles)
#21
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
The links for the articles you wrote are not accessible.
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#22
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
(08-04-2017, 08:04 PM)Mike Brady Wrote: The links for the articles you wrote are not accessible.

Odd; looks like they're back now?
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#23
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
(08-03-2017, 11:26 PM)jasfrank Wrote: Interesting thread JQuaker. I'm not sure that restoration adds much to long term value at all. Consider the fact that everyone is consumed by the "gloat" or the "deal". If they actually paid what they perceived as real value they wouldn't own it. Sort of like how most of the quality tools come into existence. Through schools or big business purchases, or with other peoples money, no small enterprise or individuals could even consider them. Back in the 70's quality unisaws were around $2000 new and about  half on the used market. They bring less today even if in perfect condition, so is that a store of value? Get a clunker, fix it up like new and see if you can turn a dime.... Same applies to hand tools I'd say.

If your only idea of value is what a tool can be resold for, you're missing the value many of us here place on our tools.  We value them for what we can produce using them.  

My "restored" Stanley Type 11 #4 smoothers (I have two) represent an investment of $20 and $30 plus (total) about three hours of my time and a negligible amount of wear and tear on my stones, say $200 for both, valuing my time at $50/hr.  They perform on a par with LN or Veritas smoothers at ~$300 - each.  More importantly, they perform at a level of quality that at times takes my breath away and makes my work far better than I ever expected when I started my woodworking journey.  That's a lot of value in my books.  

I don't restore tools for resale; that has no value for me at all.  My son may want to sell when I'm done (I hope not, but ....) When he does, the market won't be the same as today, so who knows.  In today's market, looking at what a #5 in very good condition goes for from Patrick Leach I suspect he can get a decent amount.  If he goes to e-bay and starts a bidding war, he may do very well.  Some people do.  If he were silly enough to offer them in a yard sale, despite my cautions, he'd be lucky to get $5 apiece.  

Your unisaw example is a poor one in the context of this tread.  First and foremost, the value proposition is skewed by the fact it's not a SawStop.  Second, the market is limited geographically because of the size and weight of the saw; it's unlikely to be considered by anyone much beyond the county line and that's a small market in most counties.  Pick-up and transport are demanding.  And so forth.
Fair winds and following seas,
Jim Waldron
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#24
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
100% with you on all that, Jim. I'm on the admin team over at Facebook's Antique Tools Buy Sell Trade group, and it's a mindset we have to challenge often. People think "I can find that for $5 anywhere" and thus someone asking $100 for an early #5 that's clean, flat, and ready to go is outrageous.

But if they were honest with themselves, how long would it take them to search for that $5 plane (especially if you're in a tool-poor area like the Southeast or PNW), then the time to clean it up, flatten the darn thing, sharpen it, ensure it functions right, maybe repair a tote. You've got quite a bit of time in that.
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#25
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
Amen.?? I also like to find old tools, rehab them, and get them back out to guys who will make furniture. I don't claim to be anywhere near as good as Admiral or Jim Reed, but I'm having fun. To your point, I've had people call me a crook because I priced a #4 at $50. A lot of folks don't understand how much time (and frustration) it takes just to find the tools, let alone do the work.
Currently a smarta$$ but hoping to one day graduate to wisea$$
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#26
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
I used to value a good 4 or 5 plane at the cost of a tank of gas because that is what it took to find it. Now it takes more like three tanks to find a good plane. And I know where to look. Planes went down gas went up. Were I to have more time life would be infinitely simpler!
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#27
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
(08-13-2017, 05:38 PM)DaveParkis Wrote: Amen.?? I also like to find old tools, rehab them, and get them back out to guys who will make furniture. I don't claim to be anywhere near as good as Admiral or Jim Reed, but I'm having fun. To your point, I've had people call me a crook because I priced a #4 at $50. A lot of folks don't understand how much time (and frustration) it takes just to find the tools, let alone do the work.

Thanks for the shout out. Just wanted to add to what you said about cost and pricing. Prewar Stanley Bailey planes were built to last but they are not unbreakable. Cracked cheeks and cracked mouths are common for some type groups. Often these cracks are invisible because they are coated in dirt and rust. I have been lucky in my collecting but I still find those invisible body cracks after cleaning in about 10-20% of the planes I rework. That cost has to be figured into the price of the pristine planes that are offered for sale. Other planes have to supply donor parts and these parts should be of the proper age type. The market for Frankenplanes is small and the market for cracked body planes does not really exist.

Restored planes are just a miniature version of the restored car market. The day will probably come when vintage and restored Stanley bench planes are more costly than their modern LN and LV brothers. Maybe then there will be a market for *restored* LN and LV planes. The late 20th century planes might move into collector's bookcases.
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#28
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
Jim, I agree with the 10% figure, and that it has to be figured into the price of restored planes. But some cracks are ok, like cheek cracks from toolbox banging. But selling them is a problem as the balance of the parts are worth more than some folks would pay. I only deal with Type 11-15 cracks, any others I just toss and part out.
Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
No Evaporust was used on these tools.
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#29
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
It takes about an hour for me to wander through through the fleamarket. Sometimes ,it's just looking and not buying the old tools. But the seller has had to drive around to all those garage sales, estate sales, thrift stores, and auctions for his stock. I think you have to factor in that on what is a fair price. Sometimes the seller understands the market only too well.
A man of foolish pursuits
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#30
  Re: How should we approach tool restoration and care? (articles) by JQuacker (Hey y'all - over the...)
(08-15-2017, 03:09 PM)Downwindtracker2 Wrote: It takes about an hour for me to wander through through the fleamarket. Sometimes ,it's just looking and not buying the old tools.  But the seller has had to drive around to all those garage sales, estate sales, thrift stores, and auctions for his stock.  I think you have to factor in that on what is a fair price. Sometimes the seller understands the market only too well.

The largest buy I ever made at a flea or antique store is when an antique store was going out of business.  He had everything marked 25% (75% off) and I cherry picked the tools and items I needed.  I still came home with a few extras, I just couldn't help myself.  The largest buy and cheapest prices ever at an antique store.  Found lots of other good prices at yard sales and fleas, but not so many tools at one place.

The problem is that they all have the same stuff, and you only need one or two of everything, especially as each has to be sharpened and some of them rehabbed.  So now if I'm convinced I have to have something I get it at a known seller I trust, mostly guys here.  The price is not cheap but fair, especially when it doesn't need rehab.
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