Did We Miss This? Veritas Combination Plane

[AHill]

Not a whole lot of fanfare.  Available mid-September, but it doesn't look like you can order one yet.  Looks like a derivative of the small plow plane.  Price:  $399 without any of the fancy blades.

Veritas Combination Plane

[Mike Brady]

This forum did miss this one.
  It was news earlier in the week when the Fall catalog was posted showing it.  Because the purchasers at Handworks have not been delivered theirs, the planes, and the boxes for them in particular, are not available until mid-Sept.  Robin Lee did explain that the boxes are not quite ready but the plane production in underway.   

I see it this way:  Lee Valley might be a month later than predicted.  The other famous plane company doesn't even speak of their plow plane anymore, after years of promising.

[Rob Lee]

Hi -

Not just in production but also completed - we received the first planes on July 28th. As noted above, sales and shipment have been suspended pending the assembly of plane and blade boxes for the folks that bought at Amana. Once that's done - we'll open the floodgates...

There are already far more in stock than sold at Handworks.

Cheers -

Rob

[Admiral]

Rob:  question, while your description of your new blades for the large and small plow/combination planes say that Record/Stanley 45 irons would fit the Veritas planes, it is not said that your new irons will fit in a Record/Stanley 45.  Is the latter the case?  Or am I not reading the descriptions properly, or did I miss anything.  thx.

[gregbois]

Does anyone have a sense of the relative advantages and disadvantages of the large Combination Plane versus the small one that Veritas has been selling for some time now?  What are the arguments for or against each?

[knockknock]

Veritas combination plane guide: http://www.leevalley.com/us/html/Combina...7USpdf.pdf

Veritas tools page: http://veritastools.com/Products/Page.aspx?p=805

[bandit571]

Note to the above....plane and a full set of cutters will set you back $1,000.....

BTW: I have a SW Stanley 45, type 20,  with all the standard cutters...28 in all.   I had to make a copy of the wooden Stanley box, as USPS trashed the original.   IF I need a cutter for a special job...usually have it in the plane in a week....$9 -$19 a piece...it does have a brass wing nut, to tighten the blade holder with.....at least it won't snap off like solid brass bolts will..or strip their threads in the iron body...

[Derek Cohen]

Does anyone have a sense of the relative advantages and disadvantages of the large Combination Plane versus the small one that Veritas has been selling for some time now?  What are the arguments for or against each?

The Large Plow is essentially a scaled up version of the Small Plow. It has a second skate to provide support for wider blades, as well as nickers to enable planing across the grain (such as with dados). It has a superior depth stop (actually two - one for each skate). There is a fine adjuster in the fence. In short, it has a fuller range of adjustments than the Small Plow. The Combo Plane also has a larger handle (to match the larger body), and it feels powerful in the hand. By contrast, the Small Plow is a lighter, more nimble plane that may be kept simple for the basic task of grooving or rebating. It has the facility to offer some of the tasks of its larger sibling, but when you begin to do this from scratch, it becomes a better deal to go for the Combo. Keeping it simple, or adding a few features, go for the Small Plow.

To illustrate the relative sizes of the two planes ... both planes are in grooving mode (the Large Plow has the second skate removed) ...


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bentley]

At $1000 for the plane and cutters, if the plane is a success, then the value of Stanley 45's should go up to $300-500 with all their cutters. Of course, that's just a theory as the market will decide what old Stanley 45's are really worth, but it will be interesting to see who would buy the Veritas with old 45's being so cheap relatively speaking.

This may be the reason Lie-Nielsen has dragged their feet introducing their plow plane. After crunching all the numbers, they may have decided that the plane wouldn't be profitable. I remember twenty -thirty years ago, Clifton had a 45 style plow plane with all the blades for $500. I wonder how many they sold.

[Handplanesandmore]

Whether it is a better deal to buy one of these new combination planes or turn to the second hand market for a Stanley 45 is a decision only the buyer looking for such a plane can decide. It's like buying a brand new car vs a used one, the same brand. or even the same year of make. True story: Someone I know spent close to $85,000 on a second hand Audi sports car a few years ago (you could buy a small house in some States with that kind of money). I thought he was crazy because I would rather spend $20,000 more for the same car, brand new (if I had the money, that is). Believe it or not, he drove it for two years and sold it without a loss! So I guess the value of a commodity is really in the eye of the beholder.

I also think those who spend $200 on a Vesper square are nuts. My $20 square could do exactly the same job. But then, the Vesper squares are so nice they are worth the extra money to their owners. Vesper was so busy with his orders that at one time, he stopped taking any new orders in order to clear his backlog. Woodworkers are insane when it comes to spending their money. Sometimes, economic logic is meaningless for us.

I don't think the 45 and the new combination plane are the same thing at all, though they may do the same function at the end of the day. But anyone who wants to get a 45 instead of the Veritas version for whatever reasons should be encouraged to do so and vice versa.

As for the reasons why Lie-Nielsen has not released (or will not?) its combination plane, only the insiders there can tell (of course, they are all reading this thread and others). I doubt the price point is a concern to them. Many of their tools are pricey, including the new s.s. honing jigs (did you know how much a complete set of the jig costs?). They cater to a different group of loyal supporters. They don't necessarily compete with Veritas on prices. I wish they had come up with a production plane now so we could compare and make our decisions.

Simon