Did We Miss This? Veritas Combination Plane
#31
(08-18-2017, 08:03 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Sooo, you'd rather have the new tool, rather than the $1,000 in wood?
Confused

Actually, $400, if I can use my 45 irons . . . . .
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#32
(08-18-2017, 08:03 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Sooo, you'd rather have the new tool, rather than the $1,000 in wood?
Confused

Not sure if you guys are on the same wavelength, talking about the same thing.

If one has a 45 and is happy about it, spending a $1000 (or whatever the actual amount is - I don't plan to have all the cutters) for another tool that does the same thing makes little sense to me, unless one plans to sell the 45 for a better tool.

For others who aren't happy about their 45 or those who don't have any combo plane, it is not a choice between the plane and lumber, is it?

I don't mind people calling a new tool as blingly or a toy or whatnot. To most amateurs taking up woodworking as a hobby, a woodworking tool, new or old or shop made, is really a toy. You may not agree so, but everything in my shop is a toy to me. I don't make things to sell and I can't use the tools to claim tax deductions.

I am sure old tools (or toys) have their place in woodworking, though I haven't bought any. I started my woodworking from Day 1 with new tools (both power and hand tools, and that was a long long time ago). So I guess I will head down the same path until the end.

Simon
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#33
Can I ask a related question here...  Consider myself a beginner with woodworking, at this for just over a year and looking to add a plough plane/combination plane to my tools.

I have decided to go new for various reasons and was looking at the veritas small plough or this plane below, as I am in Ireland.

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshen...plane.html

Whilst all the capabilities of the new veritas combination plane are beyond me right now, with it's release, I'm wondering if people think I would eventually regret getting the smaller option and would be better to consider the larger, more expensive combination plane for the long term as I progress into larger, more complex projects?  

Any thoughts on what you might do in my position?

Thanks.
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#34
In Northwest Arkansas I know a multi Billionaire who drives an old pickup truck to work.  His wife drives a Subaru.
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#35
(08-18-2017, 08:03 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Sooo, you'd rather have the new tool, rather than the $1,000 in wood?
Confused

Some of us can have both; it's quite obvious by your comments here and elsewhere that that fact bothers you. Let it go...
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#36
Agreed, I just don't get why someone would have a problem that Lee Valley has made a new plane and some people have an interest in buying one. There is nothing gained by attempting to mock those who are willing to spend money on a new, premium tool.  I don't see the members here mocking those who are buying the same old model of planes, saws, chisels, etc., every weekend at rust hunts. One can spend $400 on a new plane, and another over time spend $8.00 each on 50 planes, and in the end both have spent $400. How about we just celebrate and discuss what we have in common, which is a love of hand tool work?
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#37
I remember the Clifton combo plane going for $500 back when I started woodworking in the '80s.  Not really surprising that a new combo plane would cost twice that now. I have a 45 and a 55, so I'm probably not going to get one, but the price doesn't seem unreasonable.
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#38
Guncutter said:
Quote:Can I ask a related question here... Consider myself a beginner with woodworking, at this for just over a year and looking to add a plough plane/combination plane to my tools.

I have decided to go new for various reasons and was looking at the veritas small plough or this plane below, as I am in Ireland.

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshen...plane.html

Whilst all the capabilities of the new veritas combination plane are beyond me right now, with it's release, I'm wondering if people think I would eventually regret getting the smaller option and would be better to consider the larger, more expensive combination plane for the long term as I progress into larger, more complex projects?

Any thoughts on what you might do in my position?

Thanks.

The plane at the link that you posted looks interesting and has the potential to be a good bang-for-the-buck. I have no experience with it, but I am aware that the Chinese manufacturers are very capable of excellent quality control if their customer pays for it.

Without knowing what your application is/are, it is difficult to provide specific advice.

If all you are going to do is simple dadoes and rebates within the size range of the included cutters, then I suspect that the one in the link would do the job. Again, that is assuming good quality control in manufacturing. If you want additional capabilities (reeding, coves, etc), then you will have to find a source of tool steel the right size, shape it, harden it, and sharpen it in order to get those profiles.

Neither small plow plane includes nickers. The addition of the kerfing saw blade with the Q-plane has some interesting possibilities (such as using it as a stair saw if it can cut deeply enough).

Do you have an opportunity to see one of the Q-planes in a local shop to evaluate its build quality?

If the quality is decent and the included cutters will do your job, then I would certainly lean towards getting the Q-plane and using it to build your skills. Then, add the combo plane later as you grow into it.

If the quality of the Q-plane is poor and it gets bad reviews, then going with the Veritas plow to learn with and then adding the LV combo plane later provides a good upgrade path - especially if you are right-handed and start with the right-hand LV plow. That way, whichever cutters you get for the LV plow are also usable in the combo.

I do have the LV small plow and a full set of imperial cutters for it. The craftsmanship and quality are excellent. Sadly, though, I have not had any woodworking shop time since I got it to actually use it.

I hope this helps some. I also hope that someone else with more experience will chime in.
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
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#39
(08-19-2017, 01:39 AM)Guncutter Wrote: I have decided to go new for various reasons and was looking at the veritas small plough or this plane below, as I am in Ireland.

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshen...plane.html

I have seen a review of this plane along with Veritas small plow. This is a good plane according to the reviewer for its price. It has the kerfing function which the Veritas does not. On the other hand, the Veritas can do tongue & groove as well as beading, which the Chinese plane does not.
So you have to know what is most important to you: kerfing vs other profile work, to help you decide on your pick. Of course, if your aim is to have a combo plane, the Veritas plow cutters are compatible with the combo plane, meaning the Veritas plow gives you the flexibility to upgrade down the road.

However, if I knew I was going to be serious with using hand tools, I would start with the combo plane right away: buy the best tool you can afford. The plane will get only more pricey as time moves on.

It is true that the Chinese or Taiwan makers can produce tools of the highest standards and quality if the specifications given to them to compile with are the right ones. Bridge City Tools is planning to produce their tools over there for the non-US market. A better example is of course SawStop which is produced in Taiwan. It is not manufacturing ability but money that dictates what they can produce. Their car makers are producing Volvos, Fords, Audis (?), etc. So, when I have a lousy Asian tool that breaks down, I blame it on the importers which decide what they will have made and imported.

Simon
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#40
If the Quangsheng #043 is the same size as the original Record #043, then it will be a tiny plane. It will be smaller than the Veritas Small Plow, which is smaller than the Combo.

This is a Rapier (same as Record) #043 in my hand ...

[Image: The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane_html_1603a468.jpg]

If I was starting from scratch, funds permitting, I would get the Combo over the Small Plow because it has nickers. One can get away without nickers (use a knife to score lines), but it is easier to plane a dado with nickers. If planning ahead, why start out with a limitation.

The size of the Combo is why I reach for it before the Small. It fits my hand better and has more "authority" when planing hard woods. I must qualify this statement and reassure those who own the Small that they are not using a lesser plane. I would be happy as Larry (Australian slang for very happy) with the Small - and have been for many years. I've said before, the Small is a nimble rapier, while the Combo (set up similarly) is only a little less so. Ideally, one must try the ergonomics of both first. And just so that no one misses what I am saying, I am referring to using the planes only in basic mode, not as a combination plane.

The Combo has features that the Small does not have. The depth stops on the Combo have fine adjustment screws. The Combo has a fine adjuster on the fence. The Combo has nickers for cross grain planing. Of course, the Combo has a second skate for wide blades, and it comes with the nicker and a second depth stop. The Small needs to swap out parts when converting to Tongue-and-Groove mode. The Combo does not need to do this. All-in-all, the Combo is a better combination plane than the Small - which is why it came into being.

If all you plan to do is plough a groove or add the occasional bead, then get the Small. That's the way I prefer my planes - dedicated to a specific task. Less fuss to set up and go. The Combo, however, is still a simple plane - just remove the second skate. This means that it sets up quickly for basic tasks, such as ploughing a groove, but also sets up quickly for the tasks that the Small needs more time to do, such as T&G.

I have a full range of blades, some I purchased, such as the beading blades when I had my Small converted, but I have all the others courtesy of Lee Valley (for testing the plane at a preproduction stage). There are many I do not see myself using in the future at this point in time, such as the multi beaders. And this reminds me to write that one should only purchase what one needs. Rather add blades as you go along. That makes more sense to me and keeps costs down. If cost is an issue, then either wait awhile to know you want to make the expenditure, or purchase a Stanley #45. The #45 is a perfectly good plane. It will likely require some tuning, as mine did, but will do the same tasks that the Combo will do, allbeit with less pizazz.

I had not planned at this stage a review (of sorts), I will stop. Feel free to ask questions.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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