Hammer Veneering
#21
  Re: Hammer Veneering by Steve Friedman (I am about to try ha...)
Rob Millard has some youtube videos on hammer veneering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkrLrGifW08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu-Ay55Pb5I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmw_meOOktA

Lonnie
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#22
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Phil S. (A good article here ...)
(09-08-2017, 01:24 PM)Phil S. Wrote: A good article here by Don Williams on hammer veneering -
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techn...eneering-2

I also have his video on parquetry which has a good demo of the process -
http://www.shopwoodworking.com/simple-pa...-bl-161111
Thanks Phil,

I had seen the article and it's excellent.  Great explanation of why it works.   I had never seen the video.  Thanks

Steve
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#23
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Mr Eddie (Rob Millard has some...)
Thanks Lonnie,

I had watched the first two videos recently and they were very helpful.  I had not seen the third and it was very useful because it shows him doing a curve.  I see that he sizes the substrate, only applies glue to one side, and uses an iron.  

Seems like there are lots of variations and I'm guessing experience lets you know when to use which technique.  I'm tempted to try the sizing.  I can tell that the S-curve I'm trying to veneer is going to resist sticking.

We'll see.

Thanks again,

Steve
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#24
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Phil S. (A good article here ...)
Steve, no problem, love to help if I can.  My first veneering attempt went horribly -  I stuck it down, came back half hour later and it looked like a topographic map of the Rockies  -  areas had buckled and were literally an inch off the substrate while other areas were stuck .  I spent a fair amount of reading trying to figure it out.


I skimmed the Rob Millard videos in the link.  I am familiar with his work, and he is a true artist, but I don't think I have ever seen a process where you size the substrate and the veneer in advance, and then apply more liquid hide glue, then use an iron to reactivate the sized glue .  I wonder if he is doing that because he is working with crotch veneer.  I have never done any crotch veneer.  I  attended a Colonial Williamsburg presentation on how they hammer veneer, and I am fairly certain they did not use an electric iron.

The diluted yellow glue method was covered in FWW years ago.  For a small job, it is probably better than regular hammer veneering, because you don't have to mess with mixing and heating the hide glue, and getting the feel for the process.  It is very much like attaching those melamine trim strips that they sell with heat activated glue.

Let us know if you have any other questions and good luck with the project.
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#25
  Re: Hammer Veneering by Steve Friedman (I am about to try ha...)
(09-07-2017, 12:11 PM)Steve Friedman Wrote: Patrick Edwards is another expert on the use of hide glue. You can find his videos at this link. I think all your questions will be answered here, and you can trust that what he says is the truth and will work.    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...brown+glue 

Good luck!


I am about to try hammer veneering with hot hide glue for the first time and have come across a slew of contradictory advice.  Looking for some help sorting it out.  It's a very small project - 8 pieces of veneer around 1" x 12" each, but they're getting attached to the S-shaped edge of some corner brackets.  There are 4 questions:

1.  Do you use the glue to size the surface?  If yes, the substrate, the veneer, or both?

2.  Do you apply the glue to the substrate, the veneer, or both?

3.  Do you apply the glue and then start attaching the glue right away or do you wait for it to dry and then use an iron to heat the veneer and melt the glue?

4.  Do you use let the melted hide glue sit overnight before using it or so you use it right away?

This is my 3rd time trying to veneer the edges of these brackets and I would like it to be the last.  My first 2 attempts were with heat-lock glue and an iron.


Wasn't sure about whether to post this here or 2 floors up, but figured hammer veneering with hide glue belonged here.

Thanks in advance.

Steve
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#26
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Steve Friedman ([quote='hbmcc' pid='...)
(09-08-2017, 11:05 AM)Steve Friedman Wrote: That's funny.  No, not a vacation project.  Vacation is just a faint memory by now and few of my "projects" are traditional.

These are corner brackets from the canopy that I build for my daughter's wedding 4 years ago.  A family member is getting married and asked to borrow it for the wedding.

It's just 4 posts (around 3" square) and 4 rails (around 2" x 3") along the top, held together with loose tenons.  But it's around 5' x 7' and 7' tall and was built to be able to be easily disassembled, with no hardware exposed.  So it wobbled.  The corner brackets solved it, but I used veneer on the edges of the brackets to hide the hardware that's keeping them attached.

Steve

That's right! I forgot the "wedding canopy" forum design project.
Bruce
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#27
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by John Walkowiak ([quote='Steve Friedm...)
Thanks John,

I watched several of Patrick Edwards' videos and he's very good.  I loved the one where he veneers a cylinder.  

I spent the day practicing.  I think around 10 - 12 practice pieces.  The first few didn't work because I think the glue was too watery. Finally got the glue to the right thickness, but was having a hard time moving quickly enough because it was cooling down too quickly.  So, I used an iron to heat the veneer, but think I got the glue too hot.  Next, I dipped the veneer hammer in water, but that made everything too wet.  Finally figured out that I needed to dry the warmed up hammer.

I decided to use the glue to size the brackets because the S-curves are definitely presenting a challenge.  I thought that the concave part would be the problem, but it turns out that the real problem is near the ends where the curve become convex. 

Just for comparison, I tried a couple of pieces with heat-lock and an iron.  The heat-lock was definitely easier and stuck well.  But I'm veneering 1" wide strips and the edges will be visible.  The glue line on the hot hide glue is much thinner and, with a little sanding, is virtually invisible.  The heat-lock glue line is too thick for this application.

I think I'm going to wait until tomorrow to do the real thing.

I'll report back.

Thanks for all the advice.

Steve
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#28
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by hbmcc ([quote='Steve Friedm...)
(09-09-2017, 02:03 PM)hbmcc Wrote: That's right! I forgot the "wedding canopy" forum design project.

I can't believe that was 4 years ago!  The wood was solid cherry that I Justin Tyson shipped to me in NJ when he was living in Mississippi.  Seems like yesterday.

Steve
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#29
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Steve Friedman ([quote='hbmcc' pid='...)
Just wanted to close the loop and thank everyone for their help.  I definitely learned a lot.  Maybe it was the shape, but it was s a lot trickier than it looked.  I did want to share a couple of observations.

Heating the veneer hammer did give me more time to work.  But, I was veneering 1" x 12" strips onto an S-curve and it was taking too long for the glue to set up.  I needed the glue to get tacky quicker, so I stopped heating it.  

Also, I used veneer softener, but trying to get the strips onto an S-curve was a challenge until I realized what I was doing wrong.  I was trying to attach the whole piece at once.  I ended up doing them in 3 sections.  First, I applied glue just to the center concave portion and used the veneer hammer to get that laid down firmly.  Then, I applied glue to one of the ends and worked to get that laid down securely.  With 2/3 of the strip glued, I did the other end.  It made the process much quicker and neater.

Finally, my glue seemed to run just like the stuff in the Patrick Edwards video.  Looked like thin maple syrup, but didn't seem to get as stringy as his did.  It worked, but after doing 1/2 of the pieces, the glue jar tipped over into the hot water and I needed to make another batch from scratch.  I used a little less water this time and discovered the stringiness that I was looking for.  It was perfect.  The runnier stuff worked, but the tackier batch make it much quicker and easier.  

I guess the lessons were really all the same.  There's no one best way to do this for every situation.  The cool thing seems to be that the process is flexible enough to let you play with the variables to meet the needs of each project.  I'm definitely ready to try this again.  I definitely have lots of veneer and hid glue left over.

Thanks again for all the advice,

Steve
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#30
  Re: RE: Hammer Veneering by Steve Friedman (Just wanted to close...)
Steve,  thanks for the writeup,  it will help those who try to follow.  You might want to post photos.  I have never thought of applying the glue in 3 sections, glad it worked.
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