Applying Grain Filler
#11
Here’s the table I’m trying to make some progress on.  The sides and back are bamboo plywood with Koa veneer hammered on.  The legs are African Mahogany and the top is “real” mahogany that came off a ship about 40+ years ago in Newport, Virginia.  I bought it from one of our members.  My question is about using grain filler.  The top being a solid piece would be straight forward to apply.  But how to do the legs and keep the grain filler out of the mortises seems like it could be a problem or at the very least time consuming.  Do most mahogany pieces have the grain filled?  I can see if you want a piano type finish then grain filling is necessary.  What would you do for a small side table like I’m doing?  Is it very noticeable if you do the top and don’t do the legs?  I’m making the table for my wife so I want it to look nice.  Thanks for the help.
 
Lonnie


Attached Files Image(s)
   
   
   
   
Reply
#12
(09-30-2017, 12:37 AM)Mr Eddie Wrote: Here’s the table I’m trying to make some progress on.  The sides and back are bamboo plywood with Koa veneer hammered on.  The legs are African Mahogany and the top is “real” mahogany that came off a ship about 40+ years ago in Newport, Virginia.  I bought it from one of our members.  My question is about using grain filler.  The top being a solid piece would be straight forward to apply.  But how to do the legs and keep the grain filler out of the mortises seems like it could be a problem or at the very least time consuming.  Do most mahogany pieces have the grain filled?  I can see if you want a piano type finish then grain filling is necessary.  What would you do for a small side table like I’m doing?  Is it very noticeable if you do the top and don’t do the legs?  I’m making the table for my wife so I want it to look nice.  Thanks for the help.
 
Lonnie

In most instances only the top gets grain filler. 

I take it that if you are concerned about filler getting into the mortises that your thought is to finish everything before glue up?  If so, just tape over the mortises or stuff caulking backer rod in them to keep the filler and finish out. 

John
Reply
#13
Do you have any cut offs of the leg material that you could try both with filler and without and then finish?
Ed
Reply
#14
Thanks John.  I was hoping you would chime in.  

Ed - I do have a fifth leg blank which I am planning to use as a sample piece for finishing.

Originally, the leg blanks sat so long that they started to get a nice dark look to them.  I had decided not to sand or color them and just apply a finish but . . . When I cut the tapers that killed that option.  The fresh cuts were very light colored so I ended up sanding all 4 sides of the legs.

I am going to try my hand at using transtint to get a uniform color.  This will be my first real attempt at finishing and I'm a little anxious but also excited.  I've spent the last year reading as much as I can about finishing because I see a lot of nicely constructed pieces but the finish doesn't have any any 'pop'.  I hope I can learn to finish in a way that will add to the work I'm doing.
Reply
#15
(09-30-2017, 01:05 PM)Mr Eddie Wrote: Thanks John.  I was hoping you would chime in.  

Ed - I do have a fifth leg blank which I am planning to use as a sample piece for finishing.

Originally, the leg blanks sat so long that they started to get a nice dark look to them.  I had decided not to sand or color them and just apply a finish but . . . When I cut the tapers that killed that option.  The fresh cuts were very light colored so I ended up sanding all 4 sides of the legs.

I am going to try my hand at using transtint to get a uniform color.  This will be my first real attempt at finishing and I'm a little anxious but also excited.  I've spent the last year reading as much as I can about finishing because I see a lot of nicely constructed pieces but the finish doesn't have any any 'pop'.  I hope I can learn to finish in a way that will add to the work I'm doing.

You're working with about the most forgiving wood possible so it will be hard to go too far wrong.  Mahogany takes dye beautifully, and generally w/o blotching. 

There have been several articles over the years in FWW on finishing mahogany, including using grain filler.  Definitely worth looking them up if you haven't already. 

John
Reply
#16
(09-30-2017, 02:31 PM)jteneyck Wrote: You're working with about the most forgiving wood possible so it will be hard to go too far wrong.  Mahogany takes dye beautifully, and generally w/o blotching. 

There have been several articles over the years in FWW on finishing mahogany, including using grain filler.  Definitely worth looking them up if you haven't already. 

John

I've been reading till my head hurts.  FW in my opinion is one of the best resources and one of the websites I subscribe to.  I belong to SAPFM also and there is a wealth of info and help there.

John, what's yourfavorite finishing schedule for mahogany?  What do you like for a final top coat?  I know this top is going to see some water glasses so need something tough.  Thanks!
Reply
#17
(09-30-2017, 03:31 PM)Mr Eddie Wrote: I've been reading till my head hurts.  FW in my opinion is one of the best resources and one of the websites I subscribe to.  I belong to SAPFM also and there is a wealth of info and help there.

John, what's yourfavorite finishing schedule for mahogany?  What do you like for a final top coat?  I know this top is going to see some water glasses so need something tough.  Thanks!

You should ask Dave Diaman this question; he works with mahogany (and better wood, too) much more than me.  But when I do I usually spray it with Transtint dye, followed by SealCoat shellac, followed by 3 or 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal, wiped on.  ARS is very durable, but you could get similar results using Waterlox or P&L38 if it's still available.   Alternatively, I'll spray 2 coats of EnduroVar as the topcoat.  It's the most durable WB varnish I've used and looks good on mahogany.  A few times I've followed Jeff Jewitt's process of dye, sealer, filler, sealer, stain, sealer, glaze, sealer, topcoats.  This takes far longer to do than it does to write, especially if you then rub it out, but the surface is dead flat with amazing depth.  I can't imagine doing all that on something the size of a dining table, but for a little table like you are making it might be appropriate, depending upon how much you are trying to impress the Mrs. 

Why the Transtint dye?  Because it seems to add a lot of depth in addition to shifting the color.  Same thing with applying stain over a sealed in dye.  If you want depth, multi layer is the route to go.  Jeff's article does a good job of showing all this in photos.  

John
Reply
#18
Eddie,
I have two different finishes I use for mahogany. One starts with potassium dichromate to darken the wood. Usually when I am making a piece look like an antique this is my first step. The other method to color is just waterborne dye. After the color I put on a coat or two of Seal Coat shellac. Once the wood is sealed I use a dark walnut gel stain and use it similar to the way you would use a grain filler. I wipe it on and wipe off the excess. The gel will just stay in the grain giving the mahogany a richer color with more depth and even out the color. For the top surfaces you can either use Por-O-Pack or one of the clear grain fillers to fill the grain. For heavy use I use like a dining table I use P-O-Pack. Something like a chest of drawers I would use Crystallac grain filler. After that I add another coat of shellac then a top coat. For a table I would suggest Arm-r-Seal. It is easy to apply and just about bulletproof. For everything else I would either stop with the shellac and buff it out or add two coats of a waterborne lacquer. I have been using Target coatings EM6000 but there are quite a few other products that perform as well and go on well.
Reply
#19
(09-30-2017, 06:27 PM)jteneyck Wrote: You should ask Dave Diaman this question; he works with mahogany (and better wood, too) much more than me.  But when I do I usually spray it with Transtint dye, followed by SealCoat shellac, followed by 3 or 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal, wiped on.  ARS is very durable, but you could get similar results using Waterlox or P&L38 if it's still available.   Alternatively, I'll spray 2 coats of EnduroVar as the topcoat.  It's the most durable WB varnish I've used and looks good on mahogany.  A few times I've followed Jeff Jewitt's process of dye, sealer, filler, sealer, stain, sealer, glaze, sealer, topcoats.  This takes far longer to do than it does to write, especially if you then rub it out, but the surface is dead flat with amazing depth.  I can't imagine doing all that on something the size of a dining table, but for a little table like you are making it might be appropriate, depending upon how much you are trying to impress the Mrs. 

Why the Transtint dye?  Because it seems to add a lot of depth in addition to shifting the color.  Same thing with applying stain over a sealed in dye.  If you want depth, multi layer is the route to go.  Jeff's article does a good job of showing all this in photos.  

John
John,
I thought about using EnduroVar.  The first thing I sprayed when I got my gun last year was EnduroVar on my workbench.  It's pricey but it looks very nice and has held up well.  I liked the way it leveled out.
Reply
#20
David and John,
Thanks very much for posting the details on how you finish.  I read a lot but it's incredibly helpful to have the specifics from someone with the experience you both have.  Time to start doing some samples and seeing what they look like.  Having lots of fun with this stuff.  Wish I could have retired when I was thirty!

Lonnie
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Product Recommendations

Here are some supplies and tools we find essential in our everyday work around the shop. We may receive a commission from sales referred by our links; however, we have carefully selected these products for their usefulness and quality.