Finishing a dining room table

[fptahoe]

I made a dining room table with a couple of leafs for my daughter and SiL - which for me was an undertaking as an amateur woodworker but am for the most part pleased with the way it came out.  I made it out of cherry and she wants it more brown that just the bare cherry wood.  My plan to finish the table is as follows: Use Trans-tint dye diluted with water for the coloring, a washcoat or two of dewaxed shellac, and then a topcoat of GF high performance topcoat in satin finish.  They have three small kids so we want it to be durable but of course look nice too as it will be the focal point in the dining room.  We plan to brush on the dye, shellac, and topcoat.  Any comments, suggestions, critiques or any other coaching would be welcome from this group.  Thank you as always...FPT

[jteneyck]

I made a dining room table with a couple of leafs for my daughter and SiL - which for me was an undertaking as an amateur woodworker but am for the most part pleased with the way it came out.  I made it out of cherry and she wants it more brown that just the bare cherry wood.  My plan to finish the table is as follows: Use Trans-tint dye diluted with water for the coloring, a washcoat or two of dewaxed shellac, and then a topcoat of GF high performance topcoat in satin finish.  They have three small kids so we want it to be durable but of course look nice too as it will be the focal point in the dining room.  We plan to brush on the dye, shellac, and topcoat.  Any comments, suggestions, critiques or any other coaching would be welcome from this group.  Thank you as always...FPT

You need to modify your plan if you want to brush everything on.  You should switch to TransFast dye instead of TransTint.  TransFast is soluble only in water while TransTint is soluble both in water and alcohol.  If you use TransTint and then brush shellac on over it some of the dye will get pulled back up and make a muddy mess.  That won't happen with TransFast.   Your other option is to use rattle can shellac to seal in the dye, in which case you could use TransTint. 

GF's HP Poly is a great product, but it's not very chemically durable.  Cleaners containing ammonia (Fantastic, 409, etc.) will damage it very quickly.  If you daughter is well trained about these things then HP Poly will be OK, but if she is a neat freak and isn't satisfied that a damp sponge and fast dry with a dish towel is adequate then I would switch to EnduroVar.  It can be applied with a brush, too, and is very, very durable. 

Make some test samples before starting on the table.  Use scrap from the project and run them through the entire finishing process.  Cherry loves to blotch.  If that turns out to be a problem, you may want to put on a wash coat or two of Sealcoat shellac BEFORE the dye to help control it.  Others have reported good results with Charles Neil's Blotch Controller, but I've never used it.  I often make a couple dozen samples before settling on a final process.  

John

[Roly]

Try setting a piece of scrap cherry out in the sun for a day or two and check the color.    Inside it takes longer to change the color but it will darken.   It will still darken with the dye but darken too far. 
  Do all your tests on samples, not on project as said.     May also want to try boiled linseed oil on the wood then shellac. Wipe the oil off and let dry a few days before shellac.  Roly

[Phil Thien]

You need to modify your plan if you want to brush everything on.  You should switch to TransFast dye instead of TransTint.  TransFast is soluble only in water while TransTint is soluble both in water and alcohol.  If you use TransTint and then brush shellac on over it some of the dye will get pulled back up and make a muddy mess.  That won't happen with TransFast.   Your other option is to use rattle can shellac to seal in the dye, in which case you could use TransTint. 

This is so critically important.

Don't skip the rattle can of shellac.

I'd even use it over the TransFast.

[Mr Eddie]

+1 to what Phil said

There is one thing I have learned from reading this forum over the years - Shellac is your friend and it is very important to learn all that you can about how, when, and where to use it.

Lonnie

[fptahoe]

Dear all - first of all, thank you very much for your advice, always very much appreciated.  I hear you on the rattle can of shellac.  My only hesitation is that it is hard to control the finish with the rattle can on a large flat surface.  Would you advise brushing on a second coat or another spray coat?  Will definitely try all three steps on test boards.  Thanks again...FPT

[Bope]

Are you trying to relate rattle can paint to rattle can shellac? The shellac sprays much nicer than paint. I would not worry about spraying rattle can shellac. I finish a lot of cherry. My preference is Watco fruitwood Danish oil then a top coat. This brings more reds out not brown. Otherwise I use either ruby or garnet shellac. Remember the cherry will darken over time so don't get it too dark on day one. I know John likes Endurovar and I have tried it on his recommendation.  John can get product that meets published specifications. An hour and a half east of him I can only get water thin product that runs badly.

[jteneyck]

Dear all - first of all, thank you very much for your advice, always very much appreciated.  I hear you on the rattle can of shellac.  My only hesitation is that it is hard to control the finish with the rattle can on a large flat surface.  Would you advise brushing on a second coat or another spray coat?  Will definitely try all three steps on test boards.  Thanks again...FPT

For me it's much harder to brush on shellac w/o leaving bare spots or ridges than it is to spray it using the rattle can version.  All you need to do in this process is seal in the dye, not build a finish with the shellac.  A thin coat of rattle can shellac is the easiest way I know of doing that if you don't have a spray outfit.  You don't need or really want to see a film of shellac afterwards.  If you see an obvious spot you missed then just mist on some more in those areas, but don't go overboard and leave ridges or rings because they will telegraph through the clear coat. 

A completely different approach is to use a solvent based sealer, like Seal-A-Cell or Watco Oil.  Those products are dead simple to apply with a rag.  The only drawback with them is you will have to let them dry for several days before putting a WB clear coat over them.  And in this case, I would not use EnduroVar.  

John

[Willyou]

I have caught some criticism for this, but I will tell it again because it has worked well for me. It is easy to do and gives (me) good results on cherry with no blotching:
Sand through 220 grit
Apply Danish oil according to instructions
Let dry for 24 hours (longer dry time will reduce gel stain penetration)
Apply oil based gel stain (I've had good results with General Finishes)
Let it dry for 2-3 days
Apply finish. I've used both BLO and oil based poly with success without shellac.
I've never tried a water based or lacquer over this. It might need the shellac seal coat.
I've also tried using Charles Neil's Blotch Controller and I like the Danish oil better for blotch control.