Need some help from the hand tool gurus
#17
  Re: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by Herb G (I bought one of thes...)
Geeze, you guys, it would take an Einstein to parse his way through this thread and find the step-by-step guidance the OP is looking for.  Some have been helpful Harry types, but haven't given a complete and cogent path to the result the guy wants.  Others have been emulating the "nattering nabobs of negativity" by disparaging his choice of block plan or extolling the virtues of your superior choice of block plane.  The guy has a plane and is asking for help putting it to work.  It seems he's not a hand tool guy yet, but it's a start.  From this thing, so far, you're likely to run him back into the tailed tool world.  

My step-by-step effort to help:

There are two steps to evaluate what you've got to start with: 1. is the sole (the bottom) sufficient to do useful work? And, 2. is the blade in a condition that can be effective at doing useful work.  These issues can be resolved in the following fashion:
  • get a sharpie and run lines across the sole of the plane over the entire length.  
  • replace the blade so it does not project below the sole and tighten the wheel finger tight.
  • run the plane over the finest sand paper you've got, ten strokes, supported on a flat surface.  
  • inspect the sole: it all the lines are gone, your sole is perfect and you should move on to the blade.  If some of the lines are gone, check where the bare spots are.  Best if the toe (very front edge) of the sole, the area just forward of the mouth (that slot the blade projects through when you advance it), and the the very heel (the back of the sole) are bare areas, you're in good shape with nothing to worry about.  
  • If these are not all three entirely bare, it may be hard to get fine shavings, but unless there are mountainous lumps sticking up somewhere, you can choose to sand them off (start with 80 grit until gone and step through finer grits in sequence to polish to around 320 or 400 grit) or you can decide to try the plane without flattening and see how it performs.  You can always come back to this step later.  Checking for flatness can be done in a couple of minutes.  Lapping the sole to get it flat is more time consuming.  How much time depends on how much material has to be removed, which is what the check step will (sorta) tell you.  Just keep checking those lines across the sole until you get an acceptable result.  Flattening the sole is a once in a lifetime operation for most planes.  If you use it to play basketball on a concrete floor, you might want to check for flatness when you're done.  Rusting is also a reason that lapping may need to be repeated.  
  • inspect the blade: lay the blade flat, bevel up on a flat reference surface.  If it is badly twisted, warped, bent or otherwise doesn't lay pretty flat, you should seriously consider throwing it away and buying a replacement.  Google is your friend, but be sure you're very specific about that plane you have or a new blade might not fit.  
  • On the other hand, it the blade is pretty flat (it doesn't need to be perfect), you will want to go back to the sand paper set up.  The 1/2 inch or so of the back of the blade needs to be flattened to as perfectly flat as you can get it; start with paper finer that the 80 grit if you can do an effective job with it, then step through the grits to the same 320-400 grit level.  Then refine that surface to the finest level of polish you can manage.  Try finer sandpaper, sharpening stones or other sharpening technique to a mirror surface.  The quality of the surface of your work is determined by this blade, and this back surface is a major component of that.  Flattening the back of the blade is almost a once in a lifetime process.  If you let the surface get a bit rusted over time, you may need to repeat this step.  
  • Once that's done, check to see if the cutting edge of the blade is square to the sides of the blade.  If not, find a grinder and (while removing the minimum of material) square off the end.  
  • Then grind the bevel to a nearly sharp edge intersecting the back at a 30 degree angle, and then using the same flattening and sharpening and polishing technique done before, refine that bevel surface to a near mirror finish and continue until the sharpening produces a burr on the back of the blade.  (That burr is what tells you when the blade is sharp enough to do your work.)  At this stage, at least, your should consider a honing guide.  It holds the blade a the proper angle to the surface of the stone/sandpaper as you work.  There are a lot of 'em; one inexpensive starter level the's good enough to get you to the point of usability is: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/side...guide.aspx .   Every hand tool vendor will have honing guides.  
  • Remove the burr, by drawing the back of the blade over the stone/sandpaper you used to polish, reinsert the blade, adjust the blade depth to just project below the surface and test performance of a scrap.  (Getting the depth of cut right takes a bit of practice, but it comes fairly quickly.  Starting with very little and perhaps not cutting at all and then advancing the blade with light taps with a hammer until you just start to get a shaving it the way to go.)
  • In use, the blade will become duller after a time; pay attention to how much effort it takes to push the plane.  When the effort increases noticeably, you should have already sharpened the blade again.  (Only the final steps in sharpening are needed if you don't put if off too long.  Sharpen earlier rather than later and you'll have an easier time.  Until you try to plane through a nail or screw.  Then you'll have to grind the bevel back behind the chipped-out area and do the full sharpening dance from scratch.)  
At that point, you should be well on your way.  There will be refinements as you progress and learn, and there are reasons for all these things that you'll find yourself exposed to along the way (but which are an unnecessary complication to get started).  If you follow along this path, you should be able to produce decent shavings.  It should be a nice utility plane that will outlast you if it's decently rehabbed and then maintained.  Keep the surfaces oiled or waxed to prevent rusting and build something good.  We'll want to see what you do with this thing: post here.  

Good luck and report back if you get stuck.
Fair winds and following seas,
Jim Waldron
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#18
  Re: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by Herb G (I bought one of thes...)
That's the exact info I need Jim.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

I sincerely appreciate it.

Herb G.


PS- Thanks for the other replies as well guys. Smile
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#19
  Re: RE: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by JimReed@Tallahassee ([quote='rwe2156' pid...)
(02-27-2018, 02:59 PM)JimReed@Tallahassee Wrote: But perhaps the best thing of all is that a $10 plane is a good way to begin learning about planes.

WADR, this is the biggest mistake I every made when I started ww'ing.  IMO the WORST way to learn is on cheap tools, and believe me, that $10 block plane is a cheap tool.  He will find out just how much the day he puts a decent block plane in his hands.

I'll never forget the day I got my first premium plane. I had been using a stamped metal cheap plane up to that point. All I learned about planes to that point was how the didn't hold settings and the blade needed sharpening every 10 strokes.

I have no doubts I became a better ww'er when I committed to buying quality tools.

When starting out its a common thinking that you're not "ready" or "deserve" decent tools.

5 years from now, paying $75 for a block plane will be long forgotten.

DON'T BUY CHEAP TOOLS!!!!
Everything is a prototype so its a one of a kind.
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#20
  Re: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by Herb G (I bought one of thes...)
Well. Robert..that was quite a.....load of BS...... No No No  Gotta be kidding me.... Confused
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#21
  Re: RE: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by rwe2156 ([quote='JimReed@Tall...)
(03-07-2018, 12:24 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: I'll never forget the day I got my first premium plane. I had been using a stamped metal cheap plane up to that point.  All I learned about planes to that point was how the didn't hold settings and the blade needed sharpening every 10 strokes.

Well, you've certainly rigged your argument, by comparing a "cheap" plane formed from "stamped metal" to a premium plane.

I can only say, thank goodness all those idiots who for decades used Stanley, Millers Falls, or Sargent planes (or many others) never realized what junk they were using.

If they had, it might have affected the incredible results they obtained.

The most important thing for a hand-tool newbie to know about planes is that, at the end of the day, they are glorified chisel holders.
Once you realize this, the mystique disappears.
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#22
  Re: RE: Need some help from the hand tool gurus by bandit571 (Well. Robert..that w...)
(03-07-2018, 01:52 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Well. Robert..that was quite a.....load of BS...... No No No  Gotta be kidding me.... Confused

Cheap is relative.  With block planes, and again planes are just jigs to hold edge tools, its just a function of how well the plane iron is bedded.  While Herb's plane can honestly be called a project plane, if he's lucky, the casting holds the iron at the proper angle and doesn't wobble when in place.  I agree, the sharpening of the iron is most important, and flattening a block plane is no big deal.  This plane has it's limitations, it has no adjustable mouth, and the lever cap wheel is stamped steel and has the potential to fail (BTDT) but it can be made servicable and is a "gateway" plane in my view, i.e., if you get serious about hand tool work, the OP will eventually acquire a 9 1/2, which is a superior design.  But in the meantime, I say have at it.  Sooner or later I or someone else will post a 9 1/2 or a 60 1/2 in good shape in the S&S and Herb will want one!    Laugh
Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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