Need grinder advice
#11
  
I have a bunch of chisels and plane blades that need to have the primary bevel re-established.  I've been sharpening secondary bevels so long they're not very secondary any more. 

I've always used coarse diamond stones for this purpose, but mine are so worn that they're not coarse enough any more.  Besides, it's too much time & effort.  I've been pondering getting a grinder for years, but don't have the money for a Baldor, and the less expensive grinders get bad reviews.  So I'm thinking about a WS 3000, or Veritas power sharpener.  The Veritas is more expensive and almost out of reach for me.

So, I'd really appreciate opinions on using the WS 3000 for grinding bevels.  And, is the Veritas better and worth getting even with the higher price?

Thanks very much!
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#12
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
(03-09-2018, 12:30 PM)Bart Hovis Wrote: I have a bunch of chisels and plane blades that need to have the primary bevel re-established.  I've been sharpening secondary bevels so long they're not very secondary any more. 

I've always used coarse diamond stones for this purpose, but mine are so worn that they're not coarse enough any more.  Besides, it's too much time & effort.  I've been pondering getting a grinder for years, but don't have the money for a Baldor, and the less expensive grinders get bad reviews.  So I'm thinking about a WS 3000, or Veritas power sharpener.  The Veritas is more expensive and almost out of reach for me.

So, I'd really appreciate opinions on using the WS 3000 for grinding bevels.  And, is the Veritas better and worth getting even with the higher price?

Thanks very much!

Hello Bart,

I really think the cheapest grinder is fine.

The thing that is worth a bit of money is the diamond dresser and the tool rest.

Any high speed grinder will serve you very well if you do two things.
1) dress the wheel often
2) use a very light touch

This won't burn your tools but it will get you a primary bevel that is hollow ground, quickly, and inexpensively.

Here are the tools that I recommend
Veritas tool rest
Diamond wheel dresser

And if I didn't have a very basic 6" grinder I'd pick one up from Harbor Freight.

6" bench grinder

I'm actually thinking about getting an 8" one for some other attachments because they work well and are very inexpensive.
Peter

My "day job"
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#13
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
Picked up a like new Tormek for around $200.


Wood is good. 
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#14
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
Hi Bart-

For more info than you probably want, read Joel's 6 part blog post on grinding.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/899

I use a Prairie Tool hand crank grinder with a 6" Norton blue stone dressed with a crown as Joel describes.  I'm not sure how many rpms I get, but it is enough to burn an edge with bad technique.  Joel has some pretty high end gear, but I agree with Peter.  You don't need a Baldor to grind your tools.  I prefer a 6" wheel to a larger one to get a hollow grind and make sharpening easier with less material to remove.

Phil
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#15
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
(03-09-2018, 12:30 PM)Bart Hovis Wrote: I have a bunch of chisels and plane blades that need to have the primary bevel re-established.  I've been sharpening secondary bevels so long they're not very secondary any more. 

I've always used coarse diamond stones for this purpose, but mine are so worn that they're not coarse enough any more.  Besides, it's too much time & effort.  I've been pondering getting a grinder for years, but don't have the money for a Baldor, and the less expensive grinders get bad reviews.  So I'm thinking about a WS 3000, or Veritas power sharpener.  The Veritas is more expensive and almost out of reach for me.

So, I'd really appreciate opinions on using the WS 3000 for grinding bevels.  And, is the Veritas better and worth getting even with the higher price?

Thanks very much!
.....................
I have the smaller Tormek for about four hundred bucks and a Jet copy-cat 10" wet grinder..Also have the Veritas MKII and several belt and bench grinders..My take on it is..If you want to remove a lot of metal, go for a bench grinder..The six inch Delta is a good machine and a good value..So is the Rikon. But make sure you get a white wheel for it...They grind "cooler"...I don't recommend the Harbor Freight due to a couple of bad experiences with their bearings...Keep in mind that a bench grinder is not a "sharpener"...at least, not a "precision" sharpener. They don't leave a "finished edge"...The WS3000 does...but they are "pricey".....The Veritas can do the complete job but there is a steep learning curve with it...I use mine with Diamond coated laps for rough to polished edges..I have 280 to 3,000 grit laps. The diamond lap makes short work of hard steel and carbide edged tools. No steel is too hard for it.
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#16
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
I have never understood how to rehone a secondary bevel.


carl
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#17
  Re: RE: Need grinder advice by Carl Grover (I have never underst...)
(03-09-2018, 03:27 PM)Carl Grover Wrote: I have never understood how to rehone a secondary bevel.


carl

Cheap grinders work great, you just have to replace the wheels and the tool rests.  I use wolverine and they are great.

Tormek is "OK" at regrinding bevels.  It takes a long time.  How long?  Roughly 5 min for a chisel, and 8-10 min for a plane blade.  Is that too long for you?  Only you can decide.

In comparison.. a grinder is probably 30 seconds on a chisel, and probably 1-2 minutes on a plane blade.

The benefit of tormek is no threat of burning. However, there is still technique involved.  You are not at all "Guaranteed" a square edge... There are a lot of things that can go wrong even using the Tormek, I have the T-7.

Both methods are huge step up from any hand method. 

But in the end, it is all relative to time.  How much time do you want to save.
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#18
  Re: RE: Need grinder advice by Carl Grover (I have never underst...)
(03-09-2018, 03:27 PM)Carl Grover Wrote: I have never understood how to rehone a secondary bevel.


carl

,,,,,,,,,,,,
A "secondary" bevel is what some folks get frequently by mistake when honing freehand....... Crazy Big Grin
The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
Eleanor Roosevelt


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#19
  Re: Need grinder advice by Bart Hovis (I have a bunch of ch...)
Well, I have been seriously grinding edges for 25+ years and have probably knocked out over 10,000 30 degree bevels on plane blades and cutters. Now I can do that stuff freehanded and in my sleep. Here is my $.02 worth.

If you want to get great edges with the least amount of learning, get a Tormek or one of the clones. For less than $200 you can be the sharpness expert of your neighborhood. I started with one and it taught me what a good edge looked like. Like the turtle that won the race, it works slow and steady. For the hobby woodworker, nothing beats it in time invested for the outstanding results given.

If you go the high speed grinder route, prepare yourself for a steep learning curve with damaged edges in your near future. As said, replace those gray wheels immediately. Get some good wheel dressers and good tool rests. Get some trashed blades and chisels and grind away. Learn the grind-dunk dance. Once you get the hang of it, the high speed grinder is a real timesaver but it may take years to recoup your time investment.

Good luck with your decision. You are going in the right direction because all woodworking starts with a sharp edge.
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#20
  Re: RE: Need grinder advice by Peter Tremblay ([quote='Bart Hovis' ...)
(03-09-2018, 01:01 PM)Peter Tremblay Wrote: Hello Bart,

I really think the cheapest grinder is fine.

The thing that is worth a bit of money is the diamond dresser and the tool rest.

Any high speed grinder will serve you very well if you do two things.
1) dress the wheel often
2) use a very light touch

This won't burn your tools but it will get you a primary bevel that is hollow ground, quickly, and inexpensively.

Here are the tools that I recommend
Veritas tool rest
Diamond wheel dresser

And if I didn't have a very basic 6" grinder I'd pick one up from Harbor Freight.

6" bench grinder

I'm actually thinking about getting an 8" one for some other attachments because they work well and are very inexpensive.

Excellent advice.  Any grinder will do, the key is the tool rest and wheel dresser, and to take light passes, and quench between passes.  Then take it to the diamonds, or stones, and Bob's your uncle.  No magic to this, when you have to reset bevels the only answer is a grinder, unless you wish to spend a lot of time on stones.
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