Which backsaws should I have?
#21
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
A quick look through my stash of backsaws....reveals I like a Disston No. 4.      It may vary from a small 14" joinery saw, up to a mitre box saw that is 30" long, with 5" under the saw's back.
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#22
  Re: RE: Which backsaws should I have? by adamcherubini (Hi Derek, Funny you...)
(10-08-2018, 08:07 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: Hi Derek,
Funny you should mention Gramercy saws. I was recently traveling and picked up a FWW “Best Tools of 2018” to read on the plane. They had an article about best dovetail saws. I realize there are many well built saws on the market. But I don’t think the Gramercy gets the respect it deserves. Joel based that saw on historic saws. All anyone talks about is how small the handle is.

When you make a desk, those drawer sides are like 3/16”. You really need a saw with close to 20tpi. The narrow saw plate is better too. It’s easier to control, more typical of old saws. The article talked about hang angle, which, for any other saw I would congratulate FWW for. But having a handle that extends below the toothed edge can limit some techniques. I would never own a saw where the handle hung below the tooth line.

I think a lot of woodworkers make every project out of 4/4 stock. So maybe what I’m saying doesn’t matter. Personally, I think it’s important to vary stock thickness. And if you choose to do that, and work with thinner stock, you need a saw like the Gramercy.

Adam, foolish FWW.  I consider the Gramercy to be rather special. It is clear that it will not appeal to everyone, with its high hang and thin handle. I wrote a review on it about 5 years ago. 




At first this saw had me in two minds, and then it became clear that it had the potential to turn one into a terrific sawyer. Here is the conclusion I reached at the time ...

I like the LN handle. It is thick and solid. The rounder Wenzloff is even nicer. I am used to these handles. The Gramercy simply could not be held in the same way. Its thinness forced one to grip the saw lightly. Where one would consciously have to loosen the grip with the LN or Wenzloff, as these encouraged a strong hand, I found that I did not hold the Gramercy tightly to begin with. The lighter weight added to this effect as there was less to stabilise.

Then there was the higher hang of the handle. Compared with the others, the Gramercy appeared to convert more effort into more downforce.
In the end all I could come up with was that the Gramercy more naturally allowed the saw to do more of the work.
All the saws were used side-by-side to cut several dovetails. They are all excellent saws, but the Gramercy was just more relaxing, less effortful to use.

The full review is here:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews...ilSaw.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#23
  Re: RE: Which backsaws should I have? by hbmcc ([quote='overland' pi...)
(09-23-2018, 11:31 AM)hbmcc Wrote: A 12" carcase saw style, filed rip at 12 to 14p will have you well on your way and; likely, be all you will need or want for most backsaw work. Find someone to setup initial sharpening (several on this list) then you can take over. Get the specifics for filing from them.

Yep.  

You can cut dovetails with a crosscut saw, just not as quickly.  

If I had it to do over, I'd switch my order of acquisition to carcass-size first, then dovetail (small rip).  I have a tenon saw but I don't use it nearly as much since I've taken to splitting off most of the tenon waste or if things are a bit bigger, just using a nifty little 22" handsaw I got a while back.
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#24
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
If you have to choose and use ONLY one saw to cut dovetails, use a rip saw, not a cross cut saw, because there are more rip cuts to make than cross cuts in a dovetail joint.

Simon
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#25
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
Nifty! From consensus, Rip sounds like the direction to go, even though backsaws are used for more than dovetails. 

Dad told me one time that Grandpa used a rip-cut saw for all of his carpentry. I can only think it was rip in higher than 6p, but Dad didn't even use it, having a a Skill saw for ripping. I saw it and remember Dad showing how to use it to mark lumber for perpendicular cuts, a feature that seems to conflict with a rip application. I can only guess (now) it was refiled to rip. Grandpa was born in 1875.
Bruce
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#26
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
I will just observe that artisans such as Bad Axe have made the backsaw very "sexy".    But I don't use very many of them.  For dovetails I found by trial and error that I like a gents' saw.   

For crosscutting small boards at my bench, I use a panel saw or a big heavy 26" saw, with a fine tooth pitch if necessary.  Rough-cutting, I'll use a vise or whatever, and a 7-8 ppi saw.  For fine-cutting crosscuts, I lay the board against a far stop (my bench-hook / shooting-board is mounted toward the rear face of my bench) as though it is in a miter-box, and take a 10ppi saw across it delicately, like playing a violin with long strokes.  This is my way of getting that ultra-clean crosscut that is shown as a teaser on the "Disstonian Institute" website.

To summarize the last paragraph, a coarse-tooth crosscut saw against a vise-held board gives something like a bandsaw-quality cut; I see a lot of stroke marks.  A fine-tooth crosscut saw against a flat-lain board gives something more like a tablesaw-quality cut.

Enjoy!

Chris
Chris
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#27
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
Adam,

Couple questions if you dont mind. As i am actually in the process of looking for a dovetail saw for thin stock(already have a larger one) am interested in your(and others) opinion.


You seem to like the Gramercy, I have large hands I know it is narrow but is the handle also short?

You mention close to 20 tpi. What range do you think is acceptable for stock that is thinner than 1/2 inch?
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#28
  Re: Which backsaws should I have? by overland (I wonder what's a go...)
Just one saw? Confused Rolleyes Winkgrin  
   
Older picture.....have  10 backsaws in the shop....all disston No. 4......from the 14" up to the 5"x 30" for the Langdon No. 75 Mitre box.....the 14" is a 9 ppi rip.....the bigger ones came from Disston as 11 ppi.  

Hands don't really fit the Keyhole/Compass style handles....the boomstick style "Dovetail saw" handle doesn't get used because of my hands.....Uncle Arthur (itis)  makes for a painful grip on even a coping saw's handle. Upset No
   
This fits my hand quite nicely. Cool
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#29
  Re: RE: Which backsaws should I have? by bandit571 (Just one saw? :s :ro...)
(10-10-2018, 01:35 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Just one saw? Confused Rolleyes Winkgrin  
You know you are a hoarder, don't ya? Big Grin Winkgrin Laugh 

Simon
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#30
  Re: RE: Which backsaws should I have? by mongo (Adam, Couple ques...)
(10-10-2018, 12:16 PM)mongo Wrote: Adam,

Couple questions if you don't mind.  As I am actually in the process of looking for a dovetail saw for thin stock(already have a larger one) am interested in your(and others) opinion.


You seem to like the Gramercy, I have large hands I know it is narrow but is the handle also short?

You mention close to 20 tpi.  What range do you think is acceptable for stock that is thinner than 1/2 inch?

I don't own a Gramercy saw. My recollection is that the handle is thin, as you say, and also narrow.  I don't recall it being in any way uncomfortable.  My advice is to call Joel and ask for a loaner, or buy one on a trial basis.  He does that, or used to. Be sure to tell him I said hello.

I think you want 18-20tpi for small work. 

I think a lot of guys think they needn't spend money on these small saws.  My experience is the opposite.  I used to build furniture that had a ton of tiny drawers.  I could spend a couple days with a dovetail saw in my hand.  Gent's saws are for gentlemen who use them occasionally. Someone building aggressively needs a good saw.  I think Gramercy is a good choice.
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