Bookcase Project Plan JPG
#11
Hi - Following up on my earlier post about aligning cases, here's a sketch up of the current plan with incomplete face framing. This will be the biggest project I've attempted and I'd appreciate any feedback you might have before I start in.

* Regarding leveling, my idea was to level the cases before applying the face frames, then custom cut the length of the frames to be flush with the ground. Is that a reasonable plan? 

* Was thinking of pocket joining and gluing  the shelves to sides and filling holes with the Kreg pocket hole plugs as opposed to dado'ing. The purpose is primarily for books - pocket holes are strong enough? 

* Not sure what to do on top as far as crown, house is craftsman / semi-modern, no crown anywhere else. 

Any feedback appreciated, Thanks 

btw that's a window in the middle and the dimensions are very rough, not accurate. The tops of the tall cases would be level with the top of the window trim.


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#12
will it be stained and finished,  OR painted. 
Ray
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#13
(09-25-2018, 05:54 PM)rayknight Wrote: will it be stained and finished,  OR painted. 
Ray

Painted. Birch 3/4" ply with poplar face frames.
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#14
The window may not (likely) be square or level. Just make sure the shelves are level and square.

Ps. You might consider building to the ceiling and finishing with corbelling.
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#15
I would suggest that you build a plywood base (3" narrower) to serve as a toe kick, shim to level, then place everything on that base. After installation, put 1/4 plywood of your species (or resaw a strip of poplar) to cover the interior vertical of the toe kick and to hide the shims. That's the way I did it in my home office when I did something similar.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#16
(09-26-2018, 01:20 PM)Admiral Wrote: I would suggest that you build a plywood base (3" narrower) to serve as a toe kick, shim to level, then place everything on that base.  After installation, put 1/4 plywood of your species (or resaw a strip of poplar) to cover the interior vertical of the toe kick and to hide the shims.  That's the way I did it in my home office when I did something similar.

Carpenters build like Zundy all the time. I do like the build a base method myself, but the proposed method is valid. The base helps you get a level starting surface. Otherwise you must pay attention to creating a level base for the bottom shelves which I think takes more time.

I would NOT put in fixed shelves (except one mid-way for stability if needed which is unlikely). The next person to come along will probably NOT want to use the shelves as you have and won't like the idea of having to tear them out to get what he/she wants. As far as I'm concerned this is a really bad idea. Two shallow dados and metal clip-type uprights are no big deal to install. It would be cleaner, but take a lot more effort, to drill shelf pin holes. Fixed shelves screwed and glued? I hope you won't.

As someone else has said, stopping short of the ceiling looks odd. Free-standing book cases do this, but I don't think I would ever build a built-in this way. (I've build a couple and have seen many more.) Since you don't have any crown molding, once you take the towers to the ceiling, you might think of a valance between the two towers flush with the front. You could adapt a craftsman style element to give it an interesting shape.
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#17
Thanks much for the input. For the moment I revised the plan to go with a baseboard wrap around so that I could shim the bases and hide it instead of trying to cut face frames to fit the floor. Having never done the box method, it seems like a lot of extra building as opposed to sticking a few shims in here and there. Yet I see the box is widely used - what am I missing?

Regarding height, see the pic of the space below. The black lines indicate where the existing design would lay. Note the red arrow in the upper left marking the base of the 2nd floor. That intrusion makes it impossible to build to the ceiling without making the cabinet goofy narrow.  I could take the case up to the red arrow limit and build a bridge (valance?) across connecting the two - but there would still be a gap above the bridge. What would you do?

I am building around the window trim because its pocket joined and would be a pain to deal with, and also I thought I'd leave it in place if the next owner wants to tear down the bookcase.


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#18
(09-27-2018, 12:37 AM)Zundy Wrote: Thanks much for the input. For the moment I revised the plan to go with a baseboard wrap around so that I could shim the bases and hide it instead of trying to cut face frames to fit the floor. Having never done the box method, it seems like a lot of extra building as opposed to sticking a few shims in here and there. Yet I see the box is widely used - what am I missing?

Using a base, you only shim one long piece level, which goes quickly, as opposed to each individual section (which can vary), and when the base is done the rest of the installation is quick and accurate.  If you don't want a toe kick, make it such that your final bottom trim piece is flush with the rest of the cabinet.  That's the advantage I got from my experience.  That being said, there's always many ways to skin this cat.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#19
(09-27-2018, 12:37 AM)Zundy Wrote: Thanks much for the input. For the moment I revised the plan to go with a baseboard wrap around so that I could shim the bases and hide it instead of trying to cut face frames to fit the floor. Having never done the box method, it seems like a lot of extra building as opposed to sticking a few shims in here and there. Yet I see the box is widely used - what am I missing?

Regarding height, see the pic of the space below. The black lines indicate where the existing design would lay. Note the red arrow in the upper left marking the base of the 2nd floor. That intrusion makes it impossible to build to the ceiling without making the cabinet goofy narrow.  I could take the case up to the red arrow limit and build a bridge (valance?) across connecting the two - but there would still be a gap above the bridge. What would you do?

I am building around the window trim because its pocket joined and would be a pain to deal with, and also I thought I'd leave it in place if the next owner wants to tear down the bookcase.

Thanks for the photo. With what you have to take into consideration on the left and with the sloped roof, stopping short of the ceiling seems to be the best approach.

As Admiral said, it is easier to shim one long box to get everything level and on the same plane. I use 2x4s or 2x3s and build a box with a few cross members that are placed to support the vertical sides of the shelves and cabinets. I put it in place, level it left to right and front to back, then screw it to the walls in a few spots and a couple of times to the floor along the front when there are no walls to the side. Then I build separate boxes for each cabinet (or all of them together) and slide them onto the frame and screw them down.

Using your method you have to get each vertical piece the correct length (and likely no two will be exactly the same length). Once those are screwed to the floor (cleats are usually used by carpenters to do this) then you have to create a horizontal line above the floor for the bottom of each unit, and from that draw level lines front to back on each side of each upright, attach a cleat to each side and cut separate bottom boards and install them individually in each unit. This more steps and more room for error than building a frame to start on.
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#20
(09-27-2018, 09:35 PM)Mark A Smith Wrote: Thanks for the photo. With what you have to take into consideration on the left and with the sloped roof, stopping short of the ceiling seems to be the best approach.

As Admiral said, it is easier to shim one long box to get everything level and on the same plane. I use 2x4s or 2x3s and build a box with a few cross members that are placed to support the vertical sides of the shelves and cabinets. I put it in place, level it left to right and front to back, then screw it to the walls in a few spots and a couple of times to the floor along the front when there are no walls to the side. Then I build separate boxes for each cabinet (or all of them together) and slide them onto the frame and screw them down.

Using your method you have to get each vertical piece the correct length (and likely no two will be exactly the same length). Once those are screwed to the floor (cleats are usually used by carpenters to do this) then you have to create a horizontal line above the floor for the bottom of each unit, and from that draw level lines front to back on each side of each upright, attach a cleat to each side and cut separate bottom boards and install them individually in each unit. This more steps and more room for error than building a frame to start on.

Mark and Admiral, prior to your explanations I did not fully appreciate the potential compounding difficulty of leveling both side to side AND front to back of three cases. I'm going to sleep on it but I think you've just convinced me the base box is the best solution.  Thank you!
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