Camber or straight?
#21
  Re: RE: Camber or straight? by ZachDillinger (I agree with the oth...)
(10-09-2018, 08:32 AM)ZachDillinger Wrote: I agree with the others. A trying plane should have a small amount of curvature, ideally it would leave roughly the same signature as your smoothing plane which will help you avoid having to smooth plane the entire face.

A trying plane is used to even out the rough surface left by the jack plane and to flatten the stock so as to eliminate wind, cup etc. The iron is set slightly deeper than a smoothing plane. The smoothing plane is used mostly to clean off the show surfaces removing markings, scuffs and any soiling that occurs during joinery, a very thin shaving. Because the shavings are thinner for a smoothing plane, it needs less camber. If we used as little camber for the trying plane as the smoothing plane, the corners would dig in; if we used as much camber for the smoothing plane as the trying plane, it would cut only in the center.

Obsessive flattening of stones is a modern dilettante idea. It is not traditional European or Oriental practice. The stone actually works best if there is a slight hollow so it naturally leaves a small amount of camber. Otherwise you are fighting the stone.
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#22
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
(10-08-2018, 07:31 PM)Elijah A. Wrote: I have no 7 jointer plane that I want to use for joining edges and flattening faces. Should I slightly camber or  just use a straight blade? Thx!

Eli

It is helpful to have a slight camber on the iron whether you are jointing edges or planing the face of a board.
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#23
  Re: RE: Camber or straight? by wmickley ([quote='ZachDillinge...)
(10-09-2018, 11:28 AM)wmickley Wrote: A trying plane is used to even out the rough surface left by the jack plane and to flatten the stock so as to eliminate wind, cup etc. The iron is set slightly deeper than a smoothing plane. The smoothing plane is used mostly to clean off the show surfaces removing markings, scuffs and any soiling that occurs during joinery, a very thin shaving. Because the shavings are thinner for a smoothing plane, it needs less camber. If we used as little camber for the trying plane as the smoothing plane, the corners would dig in; if we used as much camber for the smoothing plane as the trying plane, it would cut only in the center.

Obsessive flattening of stones is a modern dilettante idea. It is not traditional European or Oriental practice. The stone actually works best if there is a slight hollow so it naturally leaves a small amount of camber. Otherwise you are fighting the stone.

Yes, absolutely right on all fronts. I didn't say that the two planes should share a curvature or depth setting, just that they should leave a similar looking surface behind them so as to minimize the amount of smooth planing that is necessary as, if done carefully, the try plane can produce a final surface. If the tool marks are similar enough, you can get away with smooth planing only the areas that need it without making the surface look inconsistent.
Zachary Dillinger
https://www.amazon.com/author/zdillinger

Author of "On Woodworking: Notes from a Lifetime at the Bench" and "With Saw, Plane and Chisel: Making Historic American Furniture With Hand Tools", 

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#24
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
Sellers does his blade on the diamond stones like this:

https://youtu.be/gE4yVgdVW7s?t=315

If I remember it correctly, Cosman does it on two stones only: diamond (1,000x(?))and then straight to the waterstone (12000x(?), no stropping). He doesn't soften the corners as much as Sellers seen in the video.

Edit: no micro-bevel or ruler trick for Sellers; both yes for Cosman.

All this to say that all roads lead to Rome. If you are starting out on your hand-tool journey, keep an open mind, and try out different approaches to see what really works best for you. No different than whether to cut the pins first or the tails first.

Simon
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#25
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
When I saw the David charlesworrh cambered edge jointing video my woodworking life change. I never could correct an out of square edge with a straight iron. I basically sharpennit straight freehand and then rock the last few strokes a bit ... so it's barely any camber at all, but enough to help me true an out of square edge by laterally moving the jointer plane side to side to put the high spot towards the middle and the low spot of the edge on the edge of the blade.
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#26
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
(10-10-2018, 10:36 PM)Troywoodyard Wrote: When I saw the David charlesworrh cambered edge jointing video my woodworking life change. I never could correct an out of square edge with a straight iron. I basically sharpennit straight freehand and then rock the last few strokes a bit ... so it's barely any camber at all, but enough to help me true an out of square edge by laterally moving the jointer plane side to side to put the high spot towards the middle and the low spot of the edge on the edge of the blade.

I realized the same. A slightly cambered blade on a jointer plane helps me to square up the edge quickly. And the edges glue up just fine.
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#27
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
A few old texts mention “glewing jointers”. I have a 30” woodie with a 2-7/8” iron that I use for matching planing edges to be glued. Iron is perfectly straight across and typically overhangs the work. That’s a joinery plane to me. The thing you guys call a jointer I call a try plane. It works edges, as you say, but also surfaces. It has a cambered iron. 2 different planes that look similar to some people. I think you need both planes.

Stanley or some other pundit named our tools incorrectly and confused a generation of woodworkers. If you call them by their proper names, at least some of the confusion will go away. Surface planes are jacks or fore planes, try planes and smoothers. All should have cambered irons. Rabbets, dadoes, jointers, fillesters etc all have flat straight irons.

Does that help any?
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#28
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
One more than thing. I’ve glued up many edge joints prepared with my try plane. If the edge has a tiny hollow, that’s okay. It’s good for hide glue. But it can make a weaker joint using pva. PVA needs high bondline pressure to develop properties. It has very little gap filling strength. Hide glue does better with gaps and doesn’t like high bond line pressure. It extrudes out of tight joints like epoxy does.

If you want to use your try plane for edge joints with PVA, that’s ok. But use a bunch of clamps and tighten them down pretty hard.

Again, I hope this helps
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#29
  Re: Camber or straight? by Elijah A. (I have no 7 jointer ...)
I like it when I can stack a glue up, without any glue, and they sit as they should...
   
To where I can add a bead of Elmers to one edge, slide the next board around until it sticks, add  the next boards the same way.. Winkgrin 
   
Clamps if needed... Rolleyes  
   
But then I'd need cauls on the ends, as the clamps tend to bow things...
   
Usually, when I get stuff like this the entire way..
   
I usually think the edge is jointed.    It is more in the way I hold these larger planes....face plane, I hold the front knob....edge jointing,I hold the side of the plane alongside of the knob...knuckles serve as a fence, and tells me IF I am leaning out of square.    Left thumb gets "hooked" over the top of the plane's edge, rest of the hand goes under the plane.
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#30
  Re: RE: Camber or straight? by Troywoodyard (When I saw the David...)
(10-10-2018, 10:36 PM)Troywoodyard Wrote: When I saw the David charlesworrh cambered edge jointing video my woodworking life change. I never could correct an out of square edge with a straight iron. 

David also covers that camber technique in a couple of articles. He should have a youtube video on how to camber the blade by using a crowning plate to dress the stone first.

To use a straight blade to get the above result, several others including Sellers (search his youtube videos) have shown a different technique.

There is even a third method which is less common, one that was demonstrated by a cabinetmaker at a tool event, involving skewing the blade (not the plane) a hair.

I have used all three methods plus jointing two mating boards at the same time, and out of the four, the last one is the easiest and quickest, but it is limited to the width of the blade.

To the OP, as Derek suggested, why not keep both types of blades. And if you also learn how to square an edge with either of the blade, you are well covered. 

Simon
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