Mortising question with router table
#11
Hello

It’s been a long time since I posted a question. Thank you all for still being here.

For years I have been doing mortise and tenon in many different ways. Mostly with drill press and chisels or a chisel mortiser. However 20+ years ago I worked at a shop in NC and we always did it with a spiral bit on a router table. Marked it out on a tall fence and dropped it down on bit a pushed it to the outline. Lifted it off and so on. Multiple passes for deep cuts. Then they bought a horzontal mortiser (maybe it was called a boring machine? Idk) simple tool with a table with stops, lifted up and down and slid side to side with stops. Basically mounted a dedicated router on it’s side and also a spiral bit. Can’t remember who built that thing, but it was super easy to use. Any idea, please share your thoughts on that machine as well.

On to the question, I need to do a job that will require Lots of mortising and trying to speed that process up. So back to the router table. My problem is, it’s catching like crazy and scaring the bahyesus out of me.

I’m wondering if it’s a speed issue? Using a PC variable speed that ranges from 10,000 - 23,000 rpm. Running at higher speed. Or is it the twist bit I’m using? Would I be better off with a straight flute? Or can you suggest the correct twist?

I have never gone back to this method because I made a bunch of one off pieces for the last bunch of years, but things sre changing as I have teamed up with another company that brings in all kinds of different work and a bunch of doors. Need to speed the process up a bit to make those doors more affordable. We aren’t offering cope and stick doors only M&T

Thank you
Jody
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#12
This is something you’re being paid to do?
Then I would consider getting the festool domino.
I haven’t had the financial justification yet to buy one, but I know those who have and they were more than happy with the purchase for quality and time saved on contracted work. For some the time saved on one job paid for the tool.
Ray
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#13
Second the Domino suggestion. Fast, easy accurate. I have advised a couple of my clients to get one into their system and they are happy.

But the catching should be looked into. Are you cutting in the right direction? Is the rpm high enough?
Ralph Bagnall
www.woodcademy.com
Watch Woodcademy TV free on our website.
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#14
Have both dominos and love them. John makes a horizontal router and also has plans for them.
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#15
Another vote for the Domino.
I do not have one, but if I were doing production doors, it would not take me long to get one.
"I tried being reasonable..........I didn't like it." Clint Eastwood
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#16
I would not do deep mortises on a router table.  Having to lower the workpiece down onto the spinning bit presents too many opportunities for the bit to grab the workpiece.  It would be much safer to use a hand held plunge router with an edge guide or purpose built jig.  You can find many jigs in back issues of FWW and I'm sure plenty of YouTube videos.  But a better option is a horizontal router mortise, as you remember using.  And, as mentioned, I sell one and also offer free plans for anyone who wants to build one for themselves.  The one I sell looks like this:

[Image: _mmaJDp43jA-Md6uJEeauaslrG79etkrtDgBchQt...35-h626-no]

The one I offer free plans to can be found at this link.  You will find pictures of it at the link as well as a short video of it in action.  With both machines you can make mortises of nearly any size, as well as integral tenons, sliding dovetails, dowel holes, rabbets and dados in the edge of stock, and raised panels and other molded parts.  If you want to build one just download the attached SketchUp model at the bottom of the page.  If you don't have SketchUp I can email you PDF files of all the major parts.  The one you build does everything like the one shown above with the exception of the tilting X-table.  This is especially helpful for mortising chair parts.  For flat doors and frames the flat table version does everything you need.  

John
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#17
(10-15-2018, 08:33 PM)jteneyck Wrote: John

Hmm - that's pretty kewl. 
So is the one you sell made using a CNC?
I'm interested in more information about that. PM me
Ray
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#18
(10-16-2018, 11:49 AM)DogwoodTales Wrote: Hmm - that's pretty kewl. 
So is the one you sell made using a CNC?
I'm interested in more information about that. PM me

It seems you have the PM feature turned off.  You'll have to enable that feature or send me an email.  Thanks.

John
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#19
(10-15-2018, 05:11 PM)DogwoodTales Wrote: This is something you’re being paid to do?
Then I would consider getting the festool domino.

Sorry for the delay, I did not get my email alerts.

Yes it is for a paid job and TY for the suggestion. I probably should have clarified "doors" as "entry doors" 1 3/4" - 2 1/4" thick, 8" - 12" bottom rails and 5" - 6" Stiles. I have used a Domino before, but looking at the specs, I had not remembered that it mortised 2 3/4" deep. I typically do 3" tenons on these doors, but not sure a 1/4" less bothers me too much. 


(10-15-2018, 05:58 PM)handi Wrote: But the catching should be looked into. Are you cutting in the right direction? Is the rpm high enough?

I am moving work piece in the direction so bit pulls into the fence and thus far have been running at 23,000 rpm. I felt the faster the better on something like this, but since having this trouble, I thought maybe I should ask if a slower speed would be better. I tried to do a sliding dovetail on a shaper once (router bit spindle) that didn't work. Shaper just too slow in rpm's and grabbed REAL bad. This seems the same principal and slower seems more dangerous and didn't want to try without advice.
(10-15-2018, 08:33 PM)jteneyck Wrote: I would not do deep mortises on a router table.  Having to lower the workpiece down onto the spinning bit presents too many opportunities for the bit to grab the workpiece.  It would be much safer to use a hand held plunge router with an edge guide or purpose built jig.  You can find many jigs in back issues of FWW and I'm sure plenty of YouTube videos.  But a better option is a horizontal router mortise, as you remember using.  And, as mentioned, I sell one and also offer free plans for anyone who wants to build one for themselves.  The one I sell looks like this:

[Image: _mmaJDp43jA-Md6uJEeauaslrG79etkrtDgBchQt...35-h626-no]

The one I offer free plans to can be found at this link.  You will find pictures of it at the link as well as a short video of it in action.  With both machines you can make mortises of nearly any size, as well as integral tenons, sliding dovetails, dowel holes, rabbets and dados in the edge of stock, and raised panels and other molded parts.  If you want to build one just download the attached SketchUp model at the bottom of the page.  If you don't have SketchUp I can email you PDF files of all the major parts.  The one you build does everything like the one shown above with the exception of the tilting X-table.  This is especially helpful for mortising chair parts.  For flat doors and frames the flat table version does everything you need.  

John

This seems extremely versatile and I will look into your plans. Thank you. It's basically the same set up as the machine I used years ago, just that it was a cast machine vs the DIY. Metal tables on rails, flip stops and levered handles for moving table up/down, in/out and side to side. No idea who made it and my departure from that shop was not on good terms for contacting at this date. Owner saw absolutely everyone as a threat to future work. Wasn't a very happy environment to work in though, I did get to make some very cool pieces while there.

Thank you again for all the replies,
Jody
good to have a good woman that has my back.
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#20
OK, exterior man doors are a different beast.  I try to make my mortises 3" deep when building those, too, but 2-1/2" will do the job.  I have a horizontal mortiser on my MiniMax J/P and use it for mortising door joinery.  But you should be able to mill them even 3" deep with a hand held plunge router and edge guide or jig.  I have milled some about 2-1/2" deep with my horizontal router mortiser, but you have to have outriggers to support the long, heavy parts to make the job both accurate and safe.   

I use spiral upcut end mills for milling mortises in door components.  Even the HSS ones last a long time and you can get them in longer lengths then common router bits.  I use the 2 or 3 flute, center cutting type.  

A completely different approach would be to use dowels.  Lots of companies have been building doors that way for a long, long time.  There are many jigs available, but this one was posted here recently and one I'm considering buying to speed up the door building process.  LInk It's about the cheapest and easiest approach, too.  

John
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