Dovetail sawing guide
#21
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by Tony Z (I would agree with A...)
(01-09-2019, 03:53 PM)Tony Z Wrote: I would agree with Adam's post above.  I have been cutting dovetails by hand (tails first!) for nigh on 17 years.  For Christmas in 2017, my wife bought me the Barron guide and recommended Japanese saw (she always looks through my bathroom library for things to buy for presents).  I found it counterintuitive to use, and my dovetails cut without a guide looked better.  If you are a rank amateur, it will get you acceptable looking joints, however I would spend the time learning without guides.

To that end, I would recommend the Chris Swartz method of cutting a dovetail joint a day for thirty days, and then decide if you need a guide.

Agree whole-heartedly with your recommendation! I believe it's said that doing something 21 days in a row results in habit.
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#22
  Re: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom (Where can I get a Da...)
To answer the OP's original question:


Nice comparison of these two guides here;

Youtube Video Comparison

And source for the K/M guide here:

Katz/Moses Website

This is sort of like training wheels on a bike:  you can have lots of fun with the training wheels on, and when you are ready,
you can take the training wheels off and  have even more fun: let us know how it works out!



(01-06-2019, 05:53 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: Where can I get a David Barron's or a Katz-Moses dovetail saw guide? I have looked in the usual places I go to but haven't found either one.

Tom
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#23
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by joaquimcamillo ([quote='Tony Z' pid=...)
(01-10-2019, 09:18 PM)joaquimcamillo Wrote: Agree whole-heartedly with your recommendation! I believe it's said that doing something 21 days in a row results in habit.

The 21 days advice has been overly simplified or widely misunderstood. If someone does not have the basic, decent sawing technique, repeating the same lousy cuts 21 days in a row is not going to do anything, other than increasing the level of frustration.

The woodworkers whom I have across struggling with gaps and whatnot in their dovetail efforts often did not even know how to hold the handsaw properly, let alone sawing plumb. Without the foundational skill of handsawing, even 210 days of practice is futile.

Unless health reasons (eye sight etc) are the explanation, many people who need a saw guide are usually because they have not developed the sawing skills.

Simon
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#24
  Re: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom (Where can I get a Da...)
If you go to the S@S section and look under a post on building custom work benches you will see some of my dovetail workmanship, You can' do that kind of work with a dovetail jig.  Arlin is right, I have been cutting them for over 30 years, right   after seeing a Frank Klausz video ( VHS) before DVD. 

I didn't say I needed or wanted a jig for myself. I just asked where to find one. 

Tom
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#25
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by Philip1231 (To answer the OP's o...)
(01-10-2019, 09:55 PM)Philip1231 Wrote: To answer the OP's original question:


Nice comparison of these two guides here;

Youtube Video Comparison

And source for the K/M guide here:

Katz/Moses Website

This is sort of like training wheels on a bike:  you can have lots of fun with the training wheels on, and when you are ready,
you can take the training wheels off and  have even more fun: let us know how it works out!


I have a grandson who just turned 13. His father is so handy he says righty titey lefty loosey. When he comes to visit he always wants to go over to my shop and do anything. When he was 3 he had training wheels on his bike, but they came off just after he turned 4. His fine motor muscles aren't fully developed yet. But he is ready to start developing them. What is wrong with using an aid to accomplish developing motor skills like correct standing position for the way his arm swings, Having the right height for his elbow for cutting and so on?  What is wrong with building something he can take home and be proud of and just doing something together?

Why all the negative comments about someone wanting a jig, the reason why you know nothing about, just because you can do it with out. Why are a lot of conclusions arrived at when you know nothing behind the reason for the post. I speak to you shame.

Tom
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#26
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom ([quote='Philip1231' ...)
Why all the negative comments about someone wanting a jig, the reason why you know nothing about, just because you can do it with out. Why are a lot of conclusions arrived at when you know nothing behind the reason for the post. I speak to you shame.

Tom

I think you are taking other people's comments too personal. As you said, you asked a question without providing the background info that you laid out in your last post. People can't read your mind and would assume you were the one who wanted to buy or use a jig. There is nothing wrong to use a jig by the way, and we all do in different situations.

People do draw conclusions based on the info they possess. When you pose a question, you want as many as responses, don't you? You can screen them and decide if anything is good for you. But you shouldn't condemn people just because their replies are not the correct conclusions.

Simon
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#27
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by Handplanesandmore (Why all the negative...)
(01-12-2019, 03:27 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Why all the negative comments about someone wanting a jig, the reason why you know nothing about, just because you can do it with out. Why are a lot of conclusions arrived at when you know nothing behind the reason for the post. I speak to you shame.

Tom

I think you are taking other people's comments too personal. As you said, you asked a question without providing the background info that you laid out in your last post. People can't read your mind and would assume you were the one who wanted to buy or use a jig. There is nothing wrong to use a jig by the way, and we all do in different situations.

People do draw conclusions based on the info they possess. When you pose a question, you want as many as responses, don't you? You can screen them and decide if anything is good for you. But you shouldn't condemn people just because their replies are not the correct conclusions.

Simon

Why should a person draw conclusions to a simple asked question. Either you knew where to get one or you don't. You didn't need any information, you don't need to know my background, length of time I have been woodworking (48 years ) Skill level .

What part of where can I get one don't you understand? I didn't ask for (you are doing it all wrong, my way is better because I know it all)  simply because you feel you have the right. 


 And this is not the first time you have been negative toward me. The last time I I posted that I got a good deal on a marking gauge and where it could be gotten if anyone was interested. And I was told by you that I couldn't post something like that without expecting some negative comments about it after you posted a picture of you 5 or 6 marking gauges. 

So again to those who can understand I ask, What part of where can I get one don't he understand? Don't bother answering because I will not bother to ever check this post again, not worth my time. 

Tom
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#28
  Re: RE: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(01-12-2019, 04:45 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: Why should a person draw conclusions to a simple asked question. Either you knew where to get one or you don't. You didn't need any information, you don't need to know my background, length of time I have been woodworking (48 years ) Skill level .

What part of where can I get one don't you understand? I didn't ask for (you are doing it all wrong, my way is better because I know it all)  simply because you feel you have the right. 


 And this is not the first time you have been negative toward me. The last time I I posted that I got a good deal on a marking gauge and where it could be gotten if anyone was interested. And I was told by you that I couldn't post something like that without expecting some negative comments about it after you posted a picture of you 5 or 6 marking gauges. 

So again to those who can understand I ask, What part of where can I get one don't he understand? Don't bother answering because I will not bother to ever check this post again, not worth my time. 

Tom

This post of yours confirms that you take forums too seriously and too personal. You expect people to say things that are music to your ear. If people have a different opinion or take, they are negative. You simply don't understand how a free forum works. You have mixed up a forum with a blog which is controlled by its owner in whatever way he or she wants. You are free to ask a question with whatever info. that is there with or without, but people are still free to give their responses whether you agree with them or not. Whether you like them or not. And whether you bother checking them or not.

Simon
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#29
  Re: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom (Where can I get a Da...)
Man, oh man!
Reading this thread brings back memories of Larry Jacques.
Gary

Liberty, Self-Reliance, Self-Responsibility
Say what you'll do and do what you say.
ServicePen 2014
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#30
  Re: Dovetail sawing guide by tablesawtom (Where can I get a Da...)
I recently stumbled upon the Katz-Moses youtube feed and watched his "how to negotiate on used tools" video.  I can tell you that after listening to him brag about taking advantage of woodworkers who were selling their equipment because that had a move coming up and were against a deadline, I will not buy anything from him.  The story went something like this - Called about an add for a jointer listed for $2K that was a fair price.  Offered $1,200.  Seller said no.  Seller called back a week later said ok to the $1,200 - he countered at $850.  Seller was obviously in a bind so he took the offer.  I can tell you how I would feel if that was me. Obviously the seller didn't have to take the offer, but in the video, he actually points out that you should look for a seller who is in a bind or has a deadline.  Just bad business on his part and the fact that he advertises and brags about how he did it sickens me.   

If you do want one of his guides, I would call and offer him 40% of what he is charging for it and remind him that you learned that trick from his video.  

All of that being said, I don't build a lot.  What I do build will have very few opportunities to dovetail.  I did the "30 days of dovetailing" and got relatively good at it.  Good enough that glue and sanding would make the joint look passable.  I bought the veritas jig and my first joint came out perfectly.  I use it when I dovetail because I may go months to a year between dovetailing anything and it gives consistent results.
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