Narex Chisels
#21
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by Strokes77 (LN chisels are perfe...)
(01-22-2019, 09:06 PM)Strokes77 Wrote: LN chisels are perfect for me.  They are the perfect price point, feel, and quality.  I love them.

Not one second have I regretting chunking the narex for them.  I'd rather have 2 LN chisels than a set of 6 narex.

Just a thought.

And for me... 1/4" and 1/2" would do 90% of my work probably...

I have acquired 5 LN O1 chisels over the years and probably use the 1/2" and 1/4" the most followed by a vintage 1-1/4" wide chisel for paring things level, quick bevels and clean-ups.  But then again I have a set of Pfiel bench chisels that were given to me and they are very nice. And I have the set of 4 blue handle Marples as "beaters" out in the garage. They aren't for use as paint can openers, I have cheap screwdrivers for that. Smile
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#22
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by Peter Tremblay ([quote='Strokes77' p...)
3/8" is my most used chisel for dovetail chopping, honed at 30* or up. I have three of them so I don't have to stop my pounding in the middle of a dovetail session. I've used 1/2" but the resistance is pronounced; 1/4" more chops are needed than 3/8". If you're into London pattern dovetails, you need a 1/8".

Large chisels have their place. Depending on what you're getting, a set of 4 or 5 in the class of Narex is so economical that even if you don't use each one of them equally often, the incremental cost could be minimal (average cost: under $15 a piece?). I know some people advise against getting a standard set.

Simon
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#23
  Re: Narex Chisels by Jack01 (Few years ago I use ...)
Highland Woodworking and Infinity tool both sell Narex.
War Eagle!
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#24
  Re: Narex Chisels by Jack01 (Few years ago I use ...)
(01-22-2019, 05:23 PM)Jack01 Wrote: Few years ago I use to see lot of Nyrex Chisels for sale at various outlets.

Now I am in market for new set of Chisels  and I cannot find them in common outlets,
Rockler and woodcraft do not carry them.
Highland, Lee Valley have them as well as on ebay.

Is the quality dropped or there are more choices?

Thank you very much for your feedback
Lot to think about before buying any chisels, 
Impressed with Lie Nielsen  bevel edge chisels

Anyone have experience with Stanley Bevel edge socked chisels?
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#25
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by Jack01 ([quote='Jack01' pid=...)
(01-23-2019, 11:34 AM)Jack01 Wrote: Thank you very much for your feedback
Lot to think about before buying any chisels, 
Impressed with Lie Nielsen  bevel edge chisels

Anyone have experience with Stanley Bevel edge socked chisels?
For me, I was not impressed with edge retention in the Stanley sweetheart chisels.  Also, the handles are too small and too light for my taste.

If you go with the Narex, be prepared to do some work to flatten the backs.  Also be aware (at least there used to be) two lines.  The "premium" line has a lower side bevel height there fore better for dovetails.  My only knock on Narex is edge retention & mine have round handles, so they tend to roll around.

Something else to consider: 2 sets of chisels are handy.  I have a set of Irwin Marples blue handles that I use as a "firmer" set.  Very good for mortises or other uses that require a bit of heft.  LOTS of work getting the backs flat, tho.

Bottom line if you think "one day" you'll bite the bullet and go LN, why wait? This is what I did and when I get my LN's I'll have 3 sets of chisels.
Everything is a prototype so its a one of a kind.
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#26
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by rwe2156 ([quote='Jack01' pid=...)
(01-23-2019, 12:10 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: For me, I was not impressed with edge retention in the Stanley sweetheart chisels.  Also, the handles are too small and too light for my taste.

If you go with the Narex, be prepared to do some work to flatten the backs.  Also be aware (at least there used to be) two lines.  The "premium" line has a lower side bevel height there fore better for dovetails.   My only knock on Narex is edge retention & mine have round handles, so they tend to roll around.

Something else to consider: 2 sets of chisels are handy.  I have a set of Irwin Marples blue handles that I use as a "firmer" set.  Very good for mortises or other uses that require a bit of heft.  LOTS of work getting the backs flat, tho.

Bottom line if you think "one day" you'll bite the bullet and go LN, why wait? This is what I did and when I get my LN's I'll have 3 sets of chisels.
Respectfully, I think the subject of edge retention is both subjective and has too many variables effecting it to be a helpful internet discussion.  I used to think all soft chisels were garbage. I made chisels in the low to mid Rc60's thinking harder steel made better chisels (it doesn't). And Rockwell hardness isn't even a good measuring stick.

I would recommend reading what Ron Hock has to say about alloys:
http://www.hocktools.com/tech-info/o1-vs-a2.html

I only ever had one A2 tool and I really didn't like it. Again, super subjective. But Ron described to a tee what I experienced. Worth the read before you decide on a brand.

Were I in the market for chisels, I would be attracted to LN purely for their 1/16th sizes.  I found 1/16s to be very helpful dovetailing.
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#27
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by adamcherubini ([quote='rwe2156' pid...)
(01-23-2019, 02:03 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Respectfully, I think the subject of edge retention is both subjective and has too many variables effecting it .... 

Indeed. I have Narex, Japanese, PMV11, and another brand name (off hand forgot its name) chisels, The edge retention thing is overblown if you know how to hone your tools quickly. The retention may matter to some, but I have never found any meaningful difference in any of my dovetail projects in terms of time spent, whether the tool used is a Narex or PMV11 or Japanese.

If anything, the handle, the balance, and the budget (if there is one) are more important factors to consider. And I don't like the socket type chisels. There is no benefit to me as I don't need to change the handles.

And I agree the Narex handles (those sold in NA) are a little too big...I hold the blade rather than the handle most of the time.

Simon
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#28
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by Handplanesandmore ([quote='adamcherubin...)
(01-23-2019, 02:21 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: If anything, the handle, the balance, and the budget (if there is one) are more important factors to consider. And I don't like the socket type chisels. There is no benefit to me as I don't need to change the handles.

Simon

I don't think this can be said enough.

I have lots of chisels and steel becomes much less important the more that I use it than how the tool feels and balances.
Peter

My "day job"
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#29
  Re: Narex Chisels by Jack01 (Few years ago I use ...)
I wouldn't discount edge retention in your search for a set of chisels.  I consider myself to have excellent sharpening skills, and I can tell you that once you've chosen the correct bevel angle for the type of work you do and the steel you have, the kind of steel (and who makes it) does make a difference.  Lie Nielsen's A2 steel is not the same as the A1 in the new Stanley Sweetheart 750's.  And Narex's O1 is not the same as some generic Chinese brand.  Another thing to consider is how the chisel feels to you when you use it.  This is a highly personal choice.  What works for me won't necessarily work for someone else.  

You can always improve edge strength by honing a higher secondary bevel.  That higher bevel angle compromises the ease at which it will slice through wood, giving one the impression it's not as sharp as a lower angle bevel.  Generally speaking, lower bevel angles make it easier to pare or slice end grain.  Higher bevel angles add more strength to the edge for more aggressive work like chopping.

One thing I've discovered is many woodworkers don't sharpen the more exotic tool steels long enough to get a sharp edge.  A2 takes longer to get a good edge than O1.  If you happen to find a D2 chisel, it takes even longer.  Another thing I've learned is to frequently strop while working.  Stropping with the green compound on a leather strop will maintain that edge much, much longer between honing sessions.  You will always benefit from a sharper edge.  The only time I can think of when you wouldn't is if you're using your chisels to open up paint cans.

I have and/or have used the following brands of bench chisels.  I've added the type of steel, bevel angle I use, and a comment or two on each.


Lie-Nielsen (A2 Steel, 30 deg bevel angle) - I like the balance of these chisels.  The lands are very sharp and they fit into corners of dovetails easily.  Very good edge retention. If you live in a low humidity environment, you might have issues with the handles getting loose from the sockets.  That can be solved with a drop of epoxy at the bottom of the socket, or some old style women's hairspray (slightly sticky) in the socket.

Narex (O1 steel, Imperial set, 25 deg bevel angle) - I had the versions with larger lands.  Easy to sharpen.  So-so edge retention when used for chopping.  Felt kind of clunky in the hand.  The flats on the handles were sometimes misaligned with the blade, which forces you to twist your wrist a bit when paring or trimming.

Lee Valley Veritas (PM-V11 steel, 30 deg bevel angle) - All the hype is true.  Excellent edge retention, fairly easy to sharpen, and you can get them sharper than A2.  Hybrid tang and socket construction, which makes the handles very stable.  Handles have flats on them to help orient / align the chisel in use.

Ashley Iles (Butt chisels)(O1 steel, 25 deg bevel angle) - Easiest on my hands when chopping.  Easy to sharpen.  Excellent edge retention.  Best O1 chisel I've ever touched.  AI also has their Mk II series, but I find them too large and heavy.

Blue Spruce Paring (A2, 25 deg bevel angle) - Best A2 steel in any A2 chisel I've owned.  Very sharp.  Very good edge retention, but they are paring chisels, so use accordingly.  Best fit and finish of any chisel I own, including high end Japanese brands.

They haven't been mentioned yet in this thread, but you should also consider Japanese chisels.  Again, it's kind of a personal preference on them, but some brands have incredible sharpness and excellent edge retention.  One brand highly recommended is Koyamaichi, which I believe Lee Valley sells.  They tend to be pricier than Western chisels.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#30
  Re: RE: Narex Chisels by AHill (I wouldn't discount ...)
(01-23-2019, 09:16 PM)AHill Wrote: I wouldn't discount edge retention in your search for a set of chisels.  I consider myself to have excellent sharpening skills, and I can tell you that once you've chosen the correct bevel angle for the type of work you do and the steel you have, the kind of steel (and who makes it) does make a difference.  Lie Nielsen's A2 steel is not the same as the A1 in the new Stanley Sweetheart 750's.  And Narex's O1 is not the same as some generic Chinese brand.  Another thing to consider is how the chisel feels to you when you use it.  This is a highly personal choice.  What works for me won't necessarily work for someone else.  

You can always improve edge strength by honing a higher secondary bevel.  That higher bevel angle compromises the ease at which it will slice through wood, giving one the impression it's not as sharp as a lower angle bevel.  Generally speaking, lower bevel angles make it easier to pare or slice end grain.  Higher bevel angles add more strength to the edge for more aggressive work like chopping.

One thing I've discovered is many woodworkers don't sharpen the more exotic tool steels long enough to get a sharp edge.  A2 takes longer to get a good edge than O1.  If you happen to find a D2 chisel, it takes even longer.  Another thing I've learned is to frequently strop while working.  Stropping with the green compound on a leather strop will maintain that edge much, much longer between honing sessions.  You will always benefit from a sharper edge.  The only time I can think of when you wouldn't is if you're using your chisels to open up paint cans.

I have and/or have used the following brands of bench chisels.  I've added the type of steel, bevel angle I use, and a comment or two on each.


Lie-Nielsen (A2 Steel, 30 deg bevel angle) - I like the balance of these chisels.  The lands are very sharp and they fit into corners of dovetails easily.  Very good edge retention. If you live in a low humidity environment, you might have issues with the handles getting loose from the sockets.  That can be solved with a drop of epoxy at the bottom of the socket, or some old style women's hairspray (slightly sticky) in the socket.

Narex (O1 steel, Imperial set, 25 deg bevel angle) - I had the versions with larger lands.  Easy to sharpen.  So-so edge retention when used for chopping.  Felt kind of clunky in the hand.  The flats on the handles were sometimes misaligned with the blade, which forces you to twist your wrist a bit when paring or trimming.

Lee Valley Veritas (PM-V11 steel, 30 deg bevel angle) - All the hype is true.  Excellent edge retention, fairly easy to sharpen, and you can get them sharper than A2.  Hybrid tang and socket construction, which makes the handles very stable.  Handles have flats on them to help orient / align the chisel in use.

Ashley Iles (Butt chisels)(O1 steel, 25 deg bevel angle) - Easiest on my hands when chopping.  Easy to sharpen.  Excellent edge retention.  Best O1 chisel I've ever touched.  AI also has their Mk II series, but I find them too large and heavy.

Blue Spruce Paring (A2, 25 deg bevel angle) - Best A2 steel in any A2 chisel I've owned.  Very sharp.  Very good edge retention, but they are paring chisels, so use accordingly.  Best fit and finish of any chisel I own, including high end Japanese brands.

They haven't been mentioned yet in this thread, but you should also consider Japanese chisels.  Again, it's kind of a personal preference on them, but some brands have incredible sharpness and excellent edge retention.  One brand highly recommended is Koyamaichi, which I believe Lee Valley sells.  They tend to be pricier than Western chisels.
 Alan
Thank you for your feed back and sharing your experience.
I have lot to think about. Today I stopped at Rockler and checked Stanley Bevel edge socket chisels  and I was not impressed.They are small and did not fit in my hand properly.
Lie Nielsen - no one stock in Denver area. No dealers for Lie Nielsen here. I like what I read but would like to get some experience before any purchase.
Other I will do some more research.
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