Air Cleaners Are they effective
#41
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Lumber Yard® (That's funny Ro(D) B...)
(02-16-2019, 03:15 PM)Lumber Yard® Wrote: That's funny Ro(D) Burrow was GREAT to work with when I needed support from Rikon. He did "just" send parts but that is how almost all the manufacturers deal with warranty repairs. It's just the nature of the beast, these manufacturers (Grizzly, Rikon, etc.) expect a certain level of competence when it comes to machinery. Personally I would MUCH rather them send me a part than have to box it up and send a complete machine back for repair or try and find and lug it into a local service center.

I actually, had a recent experience with a lawn equipment manufacturer where they wanted me to load the equipment up and take it into a service center for repair. The part that broke was $15 and was held in by one stinking bolt. I asked over and over for them to send me the part so I could just fix it and they refused. I finally just ordered it because at $15 it was less money and hassle than to lug it into a service center.

To each their own but this rant of yours and my follow-up isn't helping the OP with his questions.

Was not a rant just suggesting to the OP not to get from Rikon.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#42
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by MstrCarpenter (Personally I just us...)
(02-16-2019, 06:01 PM)MstrCarpenter Wrote: Personally I just use the furnace filters; 3, 16x24x2" side by side. I do get fine dust settling on shelves etc., but the filters trap a lot of dust in a short period of time. I've noticed they capture more fines as they get dirtier. I use a shop vac to clean them , and I usually have the discharge blowing outside to get rid of the really fine dust that the filter can't catch.

Anyway, I was at a industrial auction site today, and part of my friends lot was 5-10 self contained air cleaners. I think they were 24"x24" and about a foot tall. He asked me to take a guess on how much he could get for them. I told him; "exactly as much as someone would pay". So there's the question. How much would you pay? I'll assume we all want a good deal and shipping would be just the actual shipping cost from MA. By the way, if anyone is interested in purchasing one I can PM you his contact info..

Do you have a picture of what you did you can send to me so I can do it also.  Thanks
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#43
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by jteneyck (You are mostly preac...)
(02-17-2019, 04:10 PM)jteneyck Wrote: What I learned being involved with the our occupational hygienists is that it's really hard to measure airborne particles accurately, even more difficult to parse out the particles you are interested in from all the others.  How and where you test can have a great deal to do with the results obtained.  At least you are measuring dust levels so you have some idea if the filters you are using actually reduce dust levels.  But when you say a MERV7 will remove particles below 1 micron I have to wonder about the accuracy of those meters.

Right but as I explained above but apparently I'm doing a terrible job, MERV ratings are worst-case, and are stated with flow rates. The differences between filters of various ratings is often nothing more than thickness and surface area (fewer or more pleats). If you use a filter at a fraction of the rated flow rate (like strapping a filter intended for use in an HVAC system onto a 20" box fan), you can achieve better filtering levels.

(02-17-2019, 04:10 PM)jteneyck Wrote: And when I read of folks using even lower efficiency filters I wonder if they understand that they will never filter out the fine particles that present the greatest risk to health.  The air looks cleaner, but the fine particles will not be removed and will continue to get recirculated.

The finest particles may not be removed but they won't be forever recirculated, either. They do settle. Dust settles, otherwise we'd be buried in it.

(02-17-2019, 04:10 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Does wood dust cause cancer?  I have no clue.  But I do know that fine particles can easily be aspirated deep into our lungs and that's not good.   What's the best approach to protecting our health.  Work with hand tools I suppose, although I've seen data that showed some hand tools generate substantial amounts of fine dust.  Wear a respirator; can't go wrong there if it's rated for fine particles, fits well, and you can tolerate it.  Collect dust at the source with a device capable of capturing fine particles.  Ventilation; my choice with regards to my DC system.  I'll take my risk with particles in the outdoor make up air that replaces the dust laden air my DC exhausts outside as inherently safer than those returned to my shop through a filter. 

In as much as we're acknowledging that you don't know that the outdoor air is safer, fine.

(02-17-2019, 04:10 PM)jteneyck Wrote: I'm not trying to change your opinion here, your mind is made up and that's fine.  I'm only suggesting to others that they educate themselves before installing filters that may not actually improve the air in their shop.      
John

It seems to me that what you're trying to do is influence readers to emulate your behavior, even though you acknowledge you have no idea whether it makes any sense to do so ("I'll take my risk with particles in the outdoor make up air that replaces the dust laden air my DC exhausts outside as inherently safer than those returned to my shop through a filter").

I've always encouraged people to educate themselves and even spend money on equipment to determine whether their gear is working. In fact, I think that is exactly what put most of the hysteria to rest.

But education is more than going to a single site, composed by someone that is IMHO an extremist with a profit conflict (he was always pushing people to Clearvue gear, for which he received some sort of spiff, I believe).
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#44
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Arlin Eastman ([quote='Lumber Yard®...)
(02-17-2019, 05:03 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Was not a rant just suggesting to the OP not to get from Rikon.

I will not buy Rikon, I have their bandsaw and jointer/planer combo.It is always a challenge to get technical support from them.
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#45
  Re: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Jack01 (I am thinking of get...)
In almost 20 years of coming to this forum, I have gumped one person because they seem to think they know everything and must comment on all of it, and then continue to be verbose and arguementative.

It’s pretty clear from this thread that this hasn’t changed.

The forums also are quite a bit less active than years past, I wonder if the two are related?

Duke
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#46
  Re: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Jack01 (I am thinking of get...)
From the Bill Pentz website (his resume) as it stands today...

Quote:At UC Davis I majored in both mechanical engineering and pre-medicine pioneering one of the first biomedical engineering degrees. I was drafted into the Vietnam War mess before graduating, but had so many units that UC Davis granted me a general BS degree with minors in mechanical engineering, pre-medicine, chemistry, biology, math, psychology and physics. After my Vietnam service I returned to college both teaching and taking classes. I earned an additional BS in Computer Hardware Engineering plus completed MS degrees in Computer Software and Computer Hardware Engineering at CSU, Sacramento with a 3.98+ GPA.

From the Bill Pentz website from a few years ago (around January 2008)...

Quote:At the same time, UC Davis would not let me or other Vietnam veterans back in school (20-20 hindsight: brilliant on their part as we were a pretty savage lot)! In my case they said I had too many units to return for BS work and did not have a degree needed for advanced studies, plus had to first make up all the Fs that were awarded because I had not formally out processed. I successfully fought most of those failing grades as I was almost through finals and had already completed all of my work with no final required in many of my classes. With units and course work ample to get minors in pre-medicine, engineering, biology, chemistry, physics, organic chemistry, philosophy, psychology, and art, UC Davis offered me a certificate in general education. I only needed a few engineering classes for my bioengineering degree but they would not let me back in. Distraught and bitter over the whole experience, I ignored that offer failing to pick up that general degree and was quick to leave when my mother called asking for help with my father who had gone blind. I relocated to Claremont where I worked as an operations supervisor in the Claremont Colleges Computer Center.

My recollection is that was updated in 2008 after someone (not me) publicly challenged him about his claimed degrees.

He also apparently invented the computer spreadsheet, DOS, helped Intel with 8080 instruction sets, etc.

I'd take everything he says/writes with a giant grain of salt.
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#47
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Phil Thien (From the Bill Pentz ...)
(02-18-2019, 09:34 AM)Phil Thien Wrote: From the Bill Pentz website (his resume) as it stands today...


From the Bill Pentz website from a few years ago (around January 2008)...


My recollection is that was updated in 2008 after someone (not me) publicly challenged him about his claimed degrees.

He also apparently invented the computer spreadsheet, DOS, helped Intel with 8080 instruction sets, etc.

I'd take everything he says/writes with a giant grain of salt.

That is good advise for most things you read, and would certainly apply to the Dr. that Matthias Wendell (sp) references on his website at the link you provided.  There are many medical studies that show a link between wood dust exposure and human health and he's dead wrong about asbestos.


John
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#48
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by JDuke (In almost 20 years o...)
(02-17-2019, 11:43 PM)JDuke Wrote: In almost 20 years of coming to this forum, I have gumped one person because they seem to think they know everything and must comment on all of it, and then continue to be verbose and arguementative.

It’s pretty clear from this thread that this hasn’t changed.

The forums also are quite a bit less active than years past, I wonder if the two are related?

Duke

Glad you are not in the basement then.  Yes Yes Yes 

To me is it a good thing to read so I find out more about it.  When it gets to the point of threats then well, Crazy  however I know both of these guys well enough that they will not resort to that.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#49
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by Arlin Eastman ([quote='MstrCarpente...)
(02-16-2019, 06:01 PM)MstrCarpenter Wrote: Personally I just use the furnace filters; 3, 16x24x2" side by side. I do get fine dust settling on shelves etc., but the filters trap a lot of dust in a short period of time. I've noticed they capture more fines as they get dirtier. I use a shop vac to clean them , and I usually have the discharge blowing outside to get rid of the really fine dust that the filter can't catch.

Anyway, I was at a industrial auction site today, and part of my friends lot was 5-10 self contained air cleaners. I think they were 24"x24" and about a foot tall. He asked me to take a guess on how much he could get for them. I told him; "exactly as much as someone would pay". So there's the question. How much would you pay? I'll assume we all want a good deal and shipping would be just the actual shipping cost from MA. By the way, if anyone is interested in purchasing one I can PM you his contact info..

(02-17-2019, 05:27 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Do you have a picture of what you did you can send to me so I can do it also.  Thanks

The filters are my furnace filters. It's a pretty big furnace that I just this winter put a new burner on. I'm now running a .8 (gal./hr.) nozzle vs. the 1.5 that was on the original burner, but I still move a lot of air thru it. The intake is 4' wide x 24" high. The fan runs while I'm out there; it circulates heat from the woodstove too.

B.T.W. I gave the roses you made to my wife for Valentines Day. She absolutely loved them! Now she's shopping for a glass dome to keep any dust from getting on them. The fact that they were hand made makes them special to her. Helping our Veterans is special to me.
Sign at N.E. Vocational School Cabinetmaking Shop 1976, "Free knowledge given daily... Bring your own container"
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#50
  Re: RE: Air Cleaners Are they effective by MstrCarpenter ([quote='MstrCarpente...)
(02-20-2019, 12:12 AM)MstrCarpenter Wrote: The filters are my furnace filters. It's a pretty big furnace that I just this winter put a new burner on. I'm now running a .8 (gal./hr.) nozzle vs. the 1.5 that was on the original burner, but I still move a lot of air thru it. The intake is 4' wide x 24" high. The fan runs while I'm out there; it circulates heat from the woodstove too.

B.T.W. I gave the roses you made to my wife for Valentines Day. She absolutely loved them! Now she's shopping for a glass dome to keep any dust from getting on them. The fact that they were hand made makes them special to her. Helping our Veterans is special to me.

That is what brings me the most joy is others loving what they received.  Yes Yes

Now about the subject

Are you saying you have a fresh air intake in the basement???  Or did you build a unit and put furnace filters on it??
Thanks and I am very happy your sweetheart love them.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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