Paul Sellers did it...again!
#21
  Re: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Handplanesandmore (This time, it is not...)
We shouldn’t have these weird litmus tests for hand tool woodworkers. If we did, we’d all fail it. Or...I’d get a D- and all the rest of you would fail. Smile

I watch Pauls videos and like them. I learn stuff from him that I didn’t pay for or earn. I don’t like plywood but it’s good for certain things.

I used to feel strongly that jigs were crutches that denied people much needed skills. I was wrong. Jigs help people exactly like real crutches. They tend to keep them for a while then discard them when no longer needed. They also allow you to prioritize skill development.

Be nice to Paul.
Reply
#22
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by adamcherubini (We shouldn’t have th...)
Adam,

I hope you are not buying into this "jigs as a training wheel" pitch. Jigs definitely are not crutches, and they serve a very good purpose: to do what freehand can't do well. For example, a shooting board can do 90* or 45* or whatever degree precisely and consistently that most humans couldn't match. But a shooting board is no training wheel. Have you known anyone who does not use a shooting board anymore because they can produce results like a shooting board after using it for a period of time?

David Barron sells a lot of dovetail guides, but he sells them as jigs or aids, with no intention of them being used as a training wheel for someone to become good at cutting dovetails freehand. Once you rely on a dovetail guide and really cut perfect dovetails, why would you give it up? It is human nature, and it is science: the path of least resistance wins.

David has never reported, as far as I know, that any of his students or customers of his guides has become a freehand dovetailer afterwards. He does share many great dovetails done by others using his guides. And I know of no one in my circle who is good at cutting dovetails because they used a dovetail guide as a training aid. 

What about Paul's mortise guide? Is it going to be a training wheel unlike the dovetail guides? One guy left a comment in Paul's mortise jig post, saying (not his exact words) that he would use the guide for perfect results unless he is doing work not critical. So does anyone seriously think that the mortise jig is going to be different than a dovetail jig?

Paul no doubt has good intentions, and is trying to show alternatives. That is fine, but people (including his devoted followers) should not confuse it as a training aid, it is not. Paul also probably does not realize that he is indirectly diverting some away from actually learning how to cut mortises freehand.

I am a jig lover and use plywood in my projects, too. But a) I would not tell people to use a mortise jig to learn how to cut mortises by hand because it is ineffective whether as a learning method or as a motivator, and b) I would not make that little jig out of plywood...I have had more than enough hardwood scrap for that purpose, if I wanted to make one.

Is this nice enough to Paul? (Maybe, but I am relatively sure that he (or his team) wouldn't allow this to be posted on his blog.)

Simon
Reply
#23
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Handplanesandmore (Adam, I hope you ar...)
(04-08-2019, 09:50 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Adam,

I hope you are not buying into this "jigs as a training wheel" pitch. Jigs definitely are not crutches, and they serve a very good purpose: to do what freehand can't do well. For example, a shooting board can do 90* or 45* or whatever degree precisely and consistently that most humans couldn't match. But a shooting board is no training wheel. Have you known anyone who does not use a shooting board anymore because they can produce results like a shooting board after using it for a period of time?

Simon

Yeah, I guess I am. I guess it depends on how you look at it.  For a guy who has never used a mortise chisel, maybe that guide will inspire him to buy a mortise chisel and try it.  Will he or she be forever enslaved by its damned uncanny convenience?  I don't think so.

FWIW, I have never used a shooting board, never owned a shoulder plane, and don't like the way Paul (or just about anyone else) use(s) mortise chisels. I have an angled block I use for formal chairs. I believe 18th c chair makers made extensive use of jigs, patterns, and guides. 18th c Joiners/cabinetmakers, not so much. I doubt the latter even had many clamps.
Reply
#24
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by adamcherubini ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(04-08-2019, 01:15 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: FWIW,  don't like the way Paul (or just about anyone else) use(s) mortise chisels.

Paul rarely uses mortise chisels (as we know them) these days; he uses bench chisels in most of his Youtube videos (may be that's why a jig is needed/promoted?). Nothing wrong with that if it does the job or if one does not actually cut enough mortises to justify having another set of mortising chisels.

Simon
Reply
#25
  Re: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Handplanesandmore (This time, it is not...)
I was surprised to see a bandsaw in his new shop.
Reply
#26
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Ricky (I was surprised to s...)
(04-09-2019, 04:59 AM)Ricky Wrote: I was surprised to see a bandsaw in his new shop.

I was not surprised to see Paul with a bandsaw. When I see him try to use a hand saw it is a quite a bit more clumsy than one would expect from a hand tool woodworker. He says he had a "traditional apprenticeship. Maybe a traditional 20th century apprenticeship from the dark ages of hand tool work.

Paul's planing also looks clumsy; the pieces he uses for videos are machine prepared. Sellers' sharpening is crude, his turning is pitiful. He would do much better to learn some 18th century techniques.
Reply
#27
  Re: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Handplanesandmore (This time, it is not...)
Same old response to anything about Sellers....and just as clumsy....
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
Reply
#28
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by wmickley ([quote='Ricky' pid='...)
Laugh
(04-09-2019, 08:49 AM)wmickley Wrote: I was not surprised to see Paul with a bandsaw. When I see him try to use a hand saw it is a quite a bit more clumsy than one would expect from a hand tool woodworker. He says he had a "traditional apprenticeship. Maybe a traditional 20th century apprenticeship from the dark ages of hand tool work.

Paul's planing also looks clumsy; the pieces he uses for videos are machine prepared. Sellers' sharpening is crude, his turning is pitiful. He would do much better to learn some 18th century techniques.

 To my untrained eye he seems to know what he's doing with hand tools.
And he prefaces every tutorial with "I've been doing this for 55 years." Laugh
Reply
#29
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Ricky (:laugh: [quote='wmi...)
(04-09-2019, 09:42 AM)Ricky Wrote:  To my untrained eye he seems to know what he's doing with hand tools.
And he prefaces every tutorial with "I've been doing this for 55 years."

Sellers is not perfect, he has his faults, no doubt knows what he is doing.  And while I don't agree with him all the time, and he does have his brain farts about things, he's done a good job online in setting newbies on the right track on the basics, and demystifies what beginners see as a long uphill climb to doing things with hand tools, and for that he should be commended.  We can all nitpick, and I'm guilty of that, but overall I'd give him a A- as a handtool woodworking ambassador.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
Reply
#30
  Re: RE: Paul Sellers did it...again! by Admiral ([quote='Ricky' pid='...)
(04-09-2019, 09:47 AM)Admiral Wrote: Sellers is not perfect, he has his faults, no doubt knows what he is doing.  And while I don't agree with him all the time, and he does have his brain farts about things, he's done a good job online in setting newbies on the right track on the basics, and demystifies what beginners see as a long uphill climb to doing things with hand tools, and for that he should be commended.  We can all nitpick, and I'm guilty of that, but overall I'd give him a A- as a handtool woodworking ambassador.

Yep, that's what I like about him.  He's a good teacher, demystifies the basics. Yes
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)