Long Term Impact of Trade War on Woodworking Tool Prices

[Admiral]

The economists  say so...... but I rekon that to be a myth.

Interesting and refreshing perspective.

[JimDaddyO]

Interesting and refreshing perspective.

Sorry messed up the quote system.  But...

Yes, it is an interesting perspective, but I don't think the culture of a few decades of Soviet Bloc involvement can be compared to the long history of China.  For centuries imports from the far east have been desired for their quality.  Thus the creation of the silk road, and the emergence of china (the dinner ware) for example.  While the Soviet state drained the desire of workers to create quality products with their system, the culture in China has been that of combining art and quality into their products for centuries has not been stifled by the system. 

While western culture is based more on the "individual", Eastern culture is based on the "whole" more or less.

My 12" Bosch Glide Mitre saw is manufactured in China, and there is no doubt about the quality of the machine.  Why?  Because the engineers in Germany set out the specifications and ensured that they were being followed.  They took responsibility for their product and ensured that it was being made in a factory that would comply.  Not in a factory that makes dollar store plastic pieces of crap.  The same goes for Squire and Epiphone guitars and a plethora of other goods on the market that are actually good quality for their price, maybe even for a higher price.

While Soviets crushed motivation, China encourages it.

And yes, there is a lot of junk Chinese made products out there.  For the most part I would say that if you have a trusted brand that you like, origin of manufacture can pretty much be ignored.  The brand will ensure and back their product.  Generally speaking.

[Handplanesandmore]

I own and use many premium tools and machines, but I also have China-made machines, a lathe for example, (and including the computer I am using to produce this message). The origin of country is less important than the specifications and QC process that are used to determine the end products. I have owned Ridgid (China) and Dewalt (Taiwan) thickness planers, and you can't find a better planer given their prices.

I blame the importers, not the Chinese or Taiwanese manufactures (which are not the same country), for poor quality because they produce what the importers order or accept. Even some Taiwan manufacturers have moved some of their production lines to China, signalling the improvement of production capability and quality in Chinese workers. 

Anyone who pays attention to the Festool forum sees lots of complaints and issues with the German tools, notably, or infamously the Kapex, one of the most expensive sliding compound miter saws in the world. Others reported calibration issues with the joinery tools, etc.

Simon

[TGW]

I own and use many premium tools and machines, but I also have China-made machines, a lathe for example, (and including the computer I am using to produce this message). The origin of country is less important than the specifications and QC process that are used to determine the end products. I have owned Ridgid (China) and Dewalt (Taiwan) thickness planers, and you can't find a better planer given their prices.

I blame the importers, not the Chinese or Taiwanese manufactures (which are not the same country), for poor quality because they produce what the importers order or accept. Even some Taiwan manufacturers have moved some of their production lines to China, signalling the improvement of production capability and quality in Chinese workers. 

Anyone who pays attention to the Festool forum sees lots of complaints and issues with the German tools, notably, or infamously the Kapex, one of the most expensive sliding compound miter saws in the world. Others reported calibration issues with the joinery tools, etc.

Simon

Unfortunately Festool became too successful for their own good. At the moment it seems like they have become overpriced just above mid range tools. A brand with little substance behind their reputation.
That is the inherent danger with sticking to a brand while not caring about who actually made the product. Sooner or later the board of directors will realize that they can sell whatever junk they want for a premium price because people trust the brand. Stanley and Record and Irwin and Fiskars and Metabo have all gone down the drain. Bahco is rapidly heading there. Festool is taking the first steps in that direction.

[Handplanesandmore]

Here is an excellent example of why importers are largely responsible for all the poor quality stuff we complain about (largely, because we consumers are partly to blame as we opt for prices than quality when making our purchase decisions):

https://bridgecitytools.com/

These tools are now made in China after the ownership has changed. You could hardly tell any difference between the legacy version (made in USA, except the chopstick toy) and the Chinese version made to the same spec that John E. set out. The Chinese factory can produce the same quality at less cost.

Simon

[AHill]

Here is an excellent example of why importers are largely responsible for all the poor quality stuff we complain about (largely, because we consumers are partly to blame as we opt for prices than quality when making our purchase decisions):

https://bridgecitytools.com/

These tools are now made in China after the ownership has changed. You could hardly tell any difference between the legacy version (made in USA, except the chopstick toy) and the Chinese version made to the same spec that John E. set out. The Chinese factory can produce the same quality at less cost.

Simon

How can you tell the quality is the same?  By the pictures, or did you actually handle tools from both sources?

[Handplanesandmore]

How can you tell the quality is the same?  By the pictures, or did you actually handle tools from both sources?

Everything sold under the BCT brand in the past 6 to 10 months is made by Harvey, the new Chinese owner.

Has anyone ever heard one single complaint that the Chinese version is inferior or not meeting the specifications set by John, who by the way is staying as the chief designer (for at least two years from the date he sold his business to Harvey)? The China-made BCT tools are available not only to North America, but also to other countries like Britain and Australia. Anyone from outside North America hear any quality issues with the new BCT tools?

Simon

[Greg Jones]

Everything sold under the BCT brand in the past 6 to 10 months is made by Harvey, the new Chinese owner.

Has anyone ever heard one single complaint that the Chinese version is inferior or not meeting the specifications set by John, who by the way is staying as the chief designer (for at least two years from the date he sold his business to Harvey)? The China-made BCT tools are available not only to North America, but also to other countries like Britain and Australia. Anyone from outside North America hear any quality issues with the new BCT tools?

Simon

They may be made to the same quality today, perhaps even to higher quality, and I too agree that the Chinese can make quality products... However, the lack of public complaints about the quality of BCT tools (regardless of point of manufacturing) perhaps says as much or more about how many people are buying AND using them then it does about their quality. Do you know anyone that uses, on a regular basis, a $1,000 BCT handplane?

[Handplanesandmore]

The only BCT planes that are made by Harvey, I believe, are the small block and the one used in the chopstick kit. The latest Chinese planes are in the pre-order mode. So I am referring mostly to the squares, tenon makers, jointmakers etc.

The jointmaker is an expensive piece, and if Harvey could put together that and meet the quality spec., I see no reason why we should cast a doubt about the factory's capability in general just because it is Chinese. The litmus test is customers' feedback and so far, we have not heard anything bad despite the prices for these Chinese version are not much lower than those charged before the change of ownership.

Simon

[Admiral]

The jointmaker is an expensive piece, and if Harvey could put together that and meet the quality spec., I see no reason why we should cast a doubt about the factory's capability in general just because it is Chinese. The litmus test is customers' feedback and so far, we have not heard anything bad despite the prices for these Chinese version are not much lower than those charged before the change of ownership.

I don't know who/what the Harvey guy/entity is, but clearly he's seized on a marketing and high profit opportunity by capitalizing on a brand known for excellence and quality.  Even if the quality was totally maintained, his cost of production is got to be at least half of the onshore US production costs, and if the marketing is expanded globally, economies of scale are icing on the cake.  

Not that this matters at all to me, as I have always viewed BCT's products to be toolmaking art, and simply too expensive for actual use.  But that's just me, and god bless those who use and enjoy what have always been quality products on the cutting edge of design.