Pete Taran is Back in Business

[Philip1231]

Independence Tool DT saw on top, NE Plus Ultra DT saw bottom: new saw is 9", .020 plate, 15 ppi, zebra wood handle:
have not had a chance to make all that many test cuts, but so far, tracking like (I don't know) a magical blood-hound: more comprehensive assessment to follow.  

[Stwood_]

  ..................

[Derek Cohen]

Pete has been unable to join the forum to comment, and I am passing on his words ...

“I do machine file all my saws except for these. The main reason is, even back then, getting the filer set up perfect to file 15 point teeth is nerve racking. It was required when I was making dozens a week, making a dozen a month makes it less critical”.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

I'm curious about terminology and transparency here.  When discussing filing, ie. machine vs. hand filed;  are we to understand that the teeth on the saw as delivered are not necessarily hand-filed?  For instance, I have the impression that Lie-Nielsen saws (which were formerly the product of Pete Taran before LN bought his company) are hand filed now, correct?  I can understand using a machine to tooth the saw plate, but I am surpised that anyone would use a machine to file or resharpen a saw.  What about setting? Same issue.  Just for clarity I am referring to saws made new today.  Most vintage saws would have been sharpened by their owners either by machine or by hand unless we are talking an NOS vintage saw.  Could we discuss each of the contemporary makers?

[Admiral]

I'm curious about terminology and transparency here.  When discussing filing, ie. machine vs. hand filed;  are we to understand that the teeth on the saw as delivered are not necessarily hand-filed?  For instance, I have the impression that Lie-Nielsen saws (which were formerly the product of Pete Taran before LN bought his company) are hand filed now, correct?  I can understand using a machine to tooth the saw plate, but I am surpised that anyone would use a machine to file or resharpen a saw.  What about setting? Same issue.  Just for clarity I am referring to saws made new today.  Most vintage saws would have been sharpened by their owners either by machine or by hand unless we are talking an NOS vintage saw.  Could we discuss each of the contemporary makers?

This is interesting; I've got no dog in this fight, as I hand file sharpen all my personal saws, as well as those I offer for sale, all of which are generally vintage Disston, Atkins or Bishop, as I tend to only buy those brands with a few exceptions (i.e., Sandvik, Peace, etc.).  I've seen machine filed saws, and frankly they don't perform as well as hand filed, in terms of smoothness of cut, and the set is often too strong.  As an example that comes to mind, when I find more modern Sandvik saws that have little use, I'm sure they were machine filed in some way, as after I touch them up and fine tune the set, they cut wonderfully. Pax saws by Flinn, for example are filed and set by hand, and they make a point of that, but I've been asked by fudge to give them a touch up and they are even better.  LN makes a point of mentioning hand filing and setting as well.  So I if I were buying new premium saws I think I would have some questions about why they would not be hand filed.

[Pedder]

I don't have a machine to shape or file teeth. So I file by hand from the blank line.

But that doesn't mean, machine made teeth are a bad thing.
Most japanese saws teeth are machine made and are pretty perfect.

Cheers
Pedder

[Mike Brady]

Okay, this is informative.  Interested to hear from other makers and sharpeners.  Note to Admiral: I think you meant something different in part of your response.  Take a look at it again.  

How about Lee Valley, Bad Axe? What to they do?  I'm sure Mike Wenzloff sharpened by hand.  I heard Ron Herman say that the randomness of hand sharpened teeth is what makes a hand saw smoother in the cut than a machine sharpened saw.

All I would add is that I have a few saws that I feel cut better and straighter after their first (re-)sharpening.

[Admiral]

  Note to Admiral: I think you meant something different in part of your response.  Take a look at it again.  

Yeah, fixed it in bold..... thx.

[RonB1957]

Yeah, fixed it in bold..... thx.

       Well, just my 2 pennies worth. If you have 1000 saws to file all the same it would make sense to take the time to set up/ tweak a filer to file the saws well. Perhaps the case for Lee Valley. I don't really know. Hammer setting would also be advantageous. As long as it was set up well. Computer controls, etc.. Small volume of saws, not so much.
A machine filer, however, does not look at each tooth for imperfections. Tedious as it may be, filing or setting by hand forces one to look at each individual tooth. One at a time. Test the cut or run your fingers down the tooth line and feel something, " not quite right", and adjust accordingly.
      If I had the spare cash, I would order one of Pete's saws. A) Just because. B) To help support his efforts.
Otherwise, I am quite fond of the way my own saws fit my hands.
Imagine that.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Pete has been unable to join the forum to comment, and I am passing on his words ...

“I do machine file all my saws except for these. The main reason is, even back then, getting the filer set up perfect to file 15 point teeth is nerve racking. It was required when I was making dozens a week, making a dozen a month makes it less critical”.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

Thank you for taking the time to reply with Pete's response, but somehow this doesn't represent the particular online exchange I remember having with him at the time, just a few months ago.

I personally think the Foley equipment was designed by a distant cousin to Rube Goldberg. I have never seen such poor designs on any machines I have used in my entire life.

The retoothers work ok, but are very finicky to get setup also...you really don't want to be going between crosscut and rip quickly, usually takes time to setup, which is exactly what Pete eludes to in his response. The only reason the retoothers are popular is that there is really not a lot of options to cutting teeth short of water jet, or starting from a flat blank like Pedder mentions.

Alan