Delta Replacement Parts Rant
#41
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by aquaticjim ([quote='Phil Thien' ...)
(09-20-2019, 08:03 PM)aquaticjim Wrote: It truly is a shame what the American consumer did to the iconic brands such as Delta, Porter Cable and Powermatic.  We as a singular entity demanded cheap and quantity over quality and customer service.  We put the Jets and Grizzlys in business and thumbed our noses at the US based manufacturers.  We did not want to hear about reliability and jumped at a chance to buy cheap.  It did not matter if it worked well or was accurate, only that we could have more toys than our neighbors.  Now we lament on how those businesses let the consumer down.

In so many things
Phydeaux said "Loving your enemy and doing good for those that hurt you does not preclude killing them if they make that necessary."


Phil Thien

women have trouble understanding Trump's MAGA theme because they had so little involvement in making America great the first time around.

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#42
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by aquaticjim ([quote='Phil Thien' ...)
(09-20-2019, 08:03 PM)aquaticjim Wrote: It truly is a shame what the American consumer did to the iconic brands such as Delta, Porter Cable and Powermatic.  We as a singular entity demanded cheap and quantity over quality and customer service.  We put the Jets and Grizzlys in business and thumbed our noses at the US based manufacturers.  We did not want to hear about reliability and jumped at a chance to buy cheap.  It did not matter if it worked well or was accurate, only that we could have more toys than our neighbors.  Now we lament on how those businesses let the consumer down.

Very true, but people still complain about the price of Lie-Nielsen tools even though they're still going strong. People never learn until it's too late.
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#43
  Re: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by ajkoontz (Sorry, I'm not reall...)
I am not sure Lie Nielson is a good example.  They are priced like a Veblen good.   Not quite the same as low-production infills, but similar.  What happened to Delta was a really sad thing.  Selling off the spares for scrap was incredibly short-sighted. I think it's less a factor of demand and more driven by management's need for immediate profits.  There are no U.S. companies left that are willing to just have a relatively low margin but steady business anymore.  Even Boeing has been taken over by this mindset, with predictably disastrous effects.  I knew we were all in trouble when I wanted to buy a hand driven hydraulic oil pump for work and all I could get was one made in China.  I would have happily paid 10x what I did for the Chinese one I ended up with.  It works, and I still have it 15 years later, but I cringe every time I see it.
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#44
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by Phil Thien (It is a real shame t...)
(09-14-2019, 12:35 AM)Phil Thien Wrote: It is a real shame the way Delta was handled.

Too much short term thinking by these conglomerates (Stanley) that attempt to boost short term profits at most any long term expense.

From the Wikipedia entry:

"In January, 2011, Taiwan-based Chang Type Industrial Co., Ltd. purchased the Delta brand from Stanley Black & Decker.[2] Chang Type formed a wholly owned subsidiary, Delta Power Equipment Corp. to own the acquired assets including trademarks, designs and industrial tooling.[1] Chang Type is moving Delta's production tooling from a Stanley Black & Decker owned facility in Jackson, Tennessee to a facility in Anderson County, South Carolina.[3] Most recently, Delta has purchased an improved facility in Spartanburg, SC and has moved all operations to this location."

I think it was the Taiwan entity that deep-sixed the parts.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#45
  Re: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by ajkoontz (Sorry, I'm not reall...)
Our company manufactures components used in automotive assemblies.  Early on we get orders for 500,000 pieces at a time.  Then 25,000 at a time.  And then that model is replace with a new model and they order sufficient to hold in stock for future repairs. 

But if they run out, they come back to us for replacements.  Often looking for just 500 pieces. 

The parts get heat treated and plated.  The minimum lot charge for heat treating is $150.00 and plating is $200.00. 

It costs abut $800.00 to set up our machine.  (It takes 10 hours to setup our machines at $80.00 per hour--cheaper than the Chevy dealer charges for repairs.)

The minimum lot charge for material is $450.00

So just our fixed costs are

$150.00  min. lot heat treating
$200.00  min. lot plating
$800.00  setup
$450.00  minimum lot material.

$1,600.00 total materials cost and setup cost.

For 500 pieces that comes to $3.20 each + 20% profit = $3.84 each.

For the larger initial production quantities the pricing was about $0.08 each.

And our component was just one piece in the assembly.  So an assembly that originally cost maybe $4.00 each probably costs $192.00 each.  Plus they have to add a profit and they have to figure the cost of holding these parts for long periods of time.

Our situation is no unique.  Repair parts are always going to be very expensive compared to production part and very expensive compared to similar parts that are not made to specification.

All of this is not to make you feel better, but perhaps help understand that the manufacturer is probably not ripping you off, and probably would rather that they never had to sell spare parts.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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#46
  Re: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by ajkoontz (Sorry, I'm not reall...)
Just as the American buying public put the classic American brands out of business, we again did the same to the service parts business.  This time it was with our investment dollars.  Although we like to think of corporations as a 300 pound cigar smoking guy on the top floor of an office building making decision that screw over employees and consumers, that scenario only is in a Hollywood movie.

We live in a global economy of publicly traded corporations.  The CEO does own part of the stock but all of us do as well in you 401Ks, Pension plans and mutual funds.  When the mutual fund managers get together, they decide where to put your money to maximize the return on investments.  If a CEO decided that selling remaining inventories as scrap makes the most financial sense, it is as the backing of the owners, as in you and me.

Any of us could have saved Delta or the service parts business.   Any one of us complainers could have cashed in your retirements, convinced our friends and neighbors to do the same and then purchased the reminisce of the company.  You would have to convince your friends and neighbors that you are going to hire employees and run the company at a loss so as to help the very public that abandoned the previous owners a decade earlier.  Since you are running the company at a loss, your friends and neighbors would have to keep working to pump money into your losing business.  Good luck on your sales speech.

I hope the complainers get the point I am trying to make.  We are a price driven organism.  We buy products as cheap as possible and we invest our money where it pays us the most no matter the consequences.  How many of us look at the portfolio of the stocks that make up our mutual funds?  Do we investigate how each company is run?  

We all like a good barbecue but do not want to know how that sausage was made.  After we are all fed, we like to feel better about ourselves by telling other we miss the pig that was sacrificed.
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#47
  Re: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by ajkoontz (Sorry, I'm not reall...)
When I got into woodworking in 1998, I bought a brand new Jet contractor saw.  I don't remember thinking about the American / Asian component of the decision back then.


Fast forward about 10 or 12 years, and I needed to replace the chewed up clear plastic blade guard (I always use a guard, that is just my way).  Jet told me that part had been discontinued.  Now I had to look at aftermarket guards for a relatively new saw.  


I started exploring vintage tools and I never looked back.  Parts availability is not a big issue for most tools - not yet.  I will not buy Asian anything unless absolutely necessary.

Yesterday I went to the borg to get some cable clamp connectors (power cable to junction box connectors for a newly acquired vintage tool).  Their offering was a chintzy lightweight imitation of what I was buying just a few years ago.  And it was made in China.  I walked out without buying those.  I found a better quality version (also imported) at the competing borg.
Steve
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#48
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by MarkSingleton (Something to keep in...)
(08-25-2019, 05:34 PM)MarkSingleton Wrote: Something to keep in mind, long term, is that small batch runs of parts can be done by
niche market manufacturers.  I am thinking about folks who do the 3D printing stuff,
for instance.  That, in addition to CNC carving/cutting machines are already making stuff
out there for all kinds of areas. Vintage car parts as a for instance.

Don't get me wrong, I also lament the loss of what was once a great name... but I shall
hand onto the old arn tools I have, and keep them going as best I can.

But maybe that's just me?

I have a theory.

If someone made it once, someone can make it again.

Many of the brand new tools in my shop have "custom made" parts and accessories . . . 'cuz . . . you know, I have tools and can make stuff.   Wink
Know Guns. Know Security. Know Freedom - - - No Guns. No Security. No Freedom

Guns are supposed to be dangerous. If yours is not dangerous you need to take it to a gunsmith and have it repaired.
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#49
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by 6270_Productions ([quote='MarkSingleto...)
(09-29-2019, 11:09 AM)6270_Productions Wrote: I have a theory.

If someone made it once, someone can make it again.

Many of the brand new tools in my shop have "custom made" parts and accessories . . . 'cuz . . . you know, I have tools and can make stuff.   Wink

Any of the parts can be reproduced, but at a cost.  Having the metal working machines to reproduce components for the woodworking machine happens often.  However, for the normal guy, investing in an industrial lathe, surface grinder, Bridgeport and so on to make a part for a saw worth $100 does not make good sense.  

Contracting the parts to a machine shop will be cost prohibitive.  Even if you do a group buy, the costs are very high and you will have few takers.
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#50
  Re: RE: Delta Replacement Parts Rant by aquaticjim ([quote='6270_Product...)
(09-29-2019, 10:09 PM)aquaticjim Wrote: Any of the parts can be reproduced, but at a cost.  Having the metal working machines to reproduce components for the woodworking machine happens often.  However, for the normal guy, investing in an industrial lathe, surface grinder, Bridgeport and so on to make a part for a saw worth $100 does not make good sense.  

Contracting the parts to a machine shop will be cost prohibitive.  Even if you do a group buy, the costs are very high and you will have few takers.

Lots of metal guys don't know or want to deal with wood so bartering is an option
Phydeaux said "Loving your enemy and doing good for those that hurt you does not preclude killing them if they make that necessary."


Phil Thien

women have trouble understanding Trump's MAGA theme because they had so little involvement in making America great the first time around.

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