Adjustable Squares shootout..Starrett VS B&S, Mitutoyo and Chineseum
#35
  Re: RE: Adjustable Squares shootout..Starrett VS B&S, Mitutoyo and Chineseum by adamcherubini (I may not have watch...)
(10-02-2019, 12:17 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: I may not have watched carefully enough. Did he think the Starrett blade was out of square? From what I could tell it was out of straight, very possibly due to wear.  The hollow thru the center of the blade is the tell tale sign. The Chinese tool was essentially unused. So makes sense that it was straight.

I built quite a lot of pretty nice furniture using only 2 wooden squares I built myself (by hand). So I agree with those of you who said a perfect square is rarely required.

And because people post these sorts of reviews to make the point that the Chinese tools are acceptable or surprisingly accurate, I don't feel the accuracy of a combo square or double square is its only or even most important feature.  I like Starretts' markings on their scales.  You'd think every bodies' marks would be the same, but they're not.  I find Starretts' graduations are easier for me to read. In terms of their double squares (which I use more than combos) I think the weight of the stock is nicer than the others'.  I've had Mitutotyos and PECs and didn't much care for either. Now this is just personal preference, but my point is only that if the accuracy was the same, I'd pick Starrett for a host of other reasons.

Not sure about you guys, but I grow quite attached to my marking and lay-out tools. I'm emotionally attached to most of my tools, but my layout tools are like family members to me.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
but my layout tools are like family members to me.

I could not agree more....Particularly the little guys and the really old ones... Winkgrin ......
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korean War 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#36
  Re: RE: Adjustable Squares shootout..Starrett VS B&S, Mitutoyo and Chineseum by Derek Cohen (I’m coming into this...)
(10-05-2019, 09:24 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Inside the head is a tiny clamp, and this runs against the groove in the rule, which is hardened steel (at least I want it to be hardened steel, of my knive blades will wear it prematurely). That little clamp not only needs to fit the groove to hold the rule square to the head, but it must resist wear itself. As soon as it becomes a sloppy fit, accuracy goes.


Regards from Perth

Derek

While you are correct about everything else in your assessment, I do disagree with this, somewhat.  If the fit becomes sloppy between the clamp and the groove, does not necessarily mean that accuracy is out the window.  The clamp's purpose is to hold the rule against an accurate surface, which is the surface inside the groove that the rule sits in.  As long as it can do that without allowing the rule to move accuracy should still be maintained.  For ex. I assume the clamp is designed so that there's enough clamp "length" to apply the correct pressure on the rule to keep it from moving.  As long as the wear is even and the full length or nearly the full length of the clamp is still in contact with the rule, accuracy should still be maintained.  Now if the square was dropped and the clamp length was either reduced due to breakage or bending, then I would agree that there is a possibility that not enough pressure could be put on the rule and there could be movement which would greatly affect the accuracy.

Paul
Paul
They were right, I SHOULDN'T have tried it at home!
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#37
  Re: RE: Adjustable Squares shootout..Starrett VS B&S, Mitutoyo and Chineseum by pprobus ([quote='Derek Cohen'...)
(10-07-2019, 07:52 AM)pprobus Wrote: While you are correct about everything else in your assessment, I do disagree with this, somewhat.  If the fit becomes sloppy between the clamp and the groove, does not necessarily mean that accuracy is out the window.  The clamp's purpose is to hold the rule against an accurate surface, which is the surface inside the groove that the rule sits in.  As long as it can do that without allowing the rule to move accuracy should still be maintained.  For ex. I assume the clamp is designed so that there's enough clamp "length" to apply the correct pressure on the rule to keep it from moving.  As long as the wear is even and the full length or nearly the full length of the clamp is still in contact with the rule, accuracy should still be maintained.  Now if the square was dropped and the clamp length was either reduced due to breakage or bending, then I would agree that there is a possibility that not enough pressure could be put on the rule and there could be movement which would greatly affect the accuracy.

Paul

Paul, you are correct. It is not the clamp that wears but the base inside the head which the clamp pulls the rule onto. That wears. It wears faster if the metals of the head and the rule are different in their wear resistance. Generally, the cheaper combos use softish metals.

Here is a video (it is to FWW mag): https://www.finewoodworking.com/2016/12/...ion-square

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#38
  Re: Adjustable Squares shootout..Starrett VS B&S, Mitutoyo and Chineseum by Timberwolf (https://www.youtube....)
Got to checking one of my Combo squares, this morning... Winkgrin
   
Defiance by Stanley, No. 122.....held a square (that I also checked) to  the combo square... Cool
   
NO gaps, repeat, no gaps.   End of one blade sits lower, is all ( can't hold both and the camera... Rolleyes )

same board as before, same jointed edge...
   
Usually, I use a combo square to lay out a straight line for grooves and such to follow....where I can set a distance in from an edge... Cool

As long as I take care and not drop, or otherwise abuse it....it should stay this way.  Instead of a groove that can wear....this has a slot.   "Clamp" in a bit more robust..

Might just keep this around.... Rolleyes
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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