door construction -- solid or sandwich?
#6
  
LOML bought a 2'x4'x1" stained glass insert for the new house front door.  Now I've got to build the door for it to fit. Two possible designs:

{Blue is glass insert}
   

Plan is to use 4" White Oak for the uprights and cross pieces; 1" WO panels for the rest.

First question:  Is one design stronger than the other?  If so, how much?  (SWMBO will have some input I'm sure Rolleyes )

Second Question is  which joints for the uprights and cross pieces: half-lap or mortise and tenon?

I could use 1" boards and sandwich the thick pieces; lots of glue and screws on the interior side.  

Or I have a mortiser and could go that route. 

{ It will be at least a month before I'm out of my neck brace and can get back in shop so I've got time to over-think this Laugh }

what does the braintrust think???
"Truth is a highway leading to freedom"  --Kris Kristofferson

Wild Turkey
We may see the writing on the wall, but all we do is criticize the handwriting.
(joined 10/1999)
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#7
  Re: door construction -- solid or sandwich? by Wild Turkey (LOML bought a 2'x4'x...)
I prefer the first option, but the pattern/design of the glass may make one more "right" than the other.
Unless your desire is to accentuate the visual height of the piece, I would split the 2 tall panels in half with a rail.
Suits my eye better that way. But SWMBO has the eye that matters Smile
M/T joints for me. As far as strength, IDK. The additional rail would tie both stiles together along each side of the panel.
The weak spot is always gonna be the glass panel subjected to the momentum of its' own weight.
Disclaimer: To be used at your own risk. I gave up trusting my brain years ago Smile
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#8
  Re: door construction -- solid or sandwich? by Wild Turkey (LOML bought a 2'x4'x...)
(10-01-2019, 04:46 PM)Wild Turkey Wrote: LOML bought a 2'x4'x1" stained glass insert for the new house front door.  Now I've got to build the door for it to fit. Two possible designs:

{Blue is glass insert}

Plan is to use 4" White Oak for the uprights and cross pieces; 1" WO panels for the rest.

First question:  Is one design stronger than the other?  If so, how much?  (SWMBO will have some input I'm sure Rolleyes )

Second Question is  which joints for the uprights and cross pieces: half-lap or mortise and tenon?

I could use 1" boards and sandwich the thick pieces; lots of glue and screws on the interior side.  

Or I have a mortiser and could go that route. 

{ It will be at least a month before I'm out of my neck brace and can get back in shop so I've got time to over-think this Laugh }

what does the braintrust think???


Neck brace?  What happened?  I ask because I'm sitting here with one on, too.  I had 3 discs removed and replaced with plastic and titanium hardware about 2 weeks ago.  Wearing this neck brace is a real PITA, along with doing just about nothing for at least a month.  But it's a small price to pay to be free of the issues I was already having and avoiding even more debilitating ones in the future.  Modern medicine is a marvel.  

Back to your door, I think the design on the left is stronger, but both will be fine if built well.  You should use M&T joinery for all the stile/rail joints; loose or integral tenons are fine. Make them as deep as you can, at least 2-1/2".  I would not use half lap joinery for an exterior door.  Dowels are plenty good, too, if that's easier for you.  


I would increase the stiles and top rail width to at least 4-3/4" wide.  That will allow your lockset to be centered with a 2-3/8" set back.  I also would increase the bottom rail width to around 8" as it will be a lot stronger than a 4" one.  Move the glass unit up accordingly.  

I would not use solid 1" panels in an exterior door, although it's been done that way for centuries.  The problem is in a modern home the temp. and relative humidity difference will be tremendous in the Winter and the panels are likely to crack, more so if you run the grain vertically on those wide panels.  1/2" thick panels placed back to back with a plastic or foil vapor barrier between them will let them expand/contract independently.  Your sketches don't show it, but I would use moldings to hold the panels and glass unit in place, and not trap them in dados.  No easy way to repair anything if/when problems develop, or even maintenance.  

You didn't ask, but I'll offer it anyway.  Don't use TBIII for any of it, especially for gluing up panels.  Epoxy or Unibond 800 are much better choices.  If the door will get any direct sun exposure I would not put a storm door over it unless it's well vented, even in Winter.  For the same reason, dark colors are bad.  I've had really good success with PPG Cetol Door and Window finish.  Great stuff.  If you plan to use a clearcoat finish, make sure it has a really good UV package in it.  


Happy to help further if I can.  Good luck.


John
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#9
  Re: door construction -- solid or sandwich? by Wild Turkey (LOML bought a 2'x4'x...)
Neck brace: https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthrea...ht=landing  

Thanks for the ideas.  Lots to think about.  The more I look at it the better loose tenons look. Laugh

I was planing to "trap" the insert for a cleaner appearance knowing if there was a problem I'd have to use a router to get it out but I'll discuss some trim with the management  Rolleyes

Good point about lock offset. Cool
"Truth is a highway leading to freedom"  --Kris Kristofferson

Wild Turkey
We may see the writing on the wall, but all we do is criticize the handwriting.
(joined 10/1999)
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#10
  Re: RE: door construction -- solid or sandwich? by Wild Turkey (Neck brace: [url=htt...)
(10-01-2019, 06:27 PM)Wild Turkey Wrote: Neck brace: https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthrea...ht=landing  

Thanks for the ideas.  Lots to think about.  The more I look at it the better loose tenons look. Laugh

I was planing to "trap" the insert for a cleaner appearance knowing if there was a problem I'd have to use a router to get it out but I'll discuss some trim with the management  Rolleyes

Good point about lock offset. Cool

Your accident was the day of my surgery, so I get a pass on not being aware.  I hope we both heal up as good as new.

Another comment on your door.  If you can get good 8/4 rift or QS stock it would be perfectly fine to make all the stiles and rails with that.  If not, you could laminate 3 layers of 3/4" stock together with epoxy or Unibond 800, etc. to get your stock. 

You an still get a clean look by using rectangular moldings such that they are flush with the faces of the door after installation.  


John
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