Inset Drawers
#21
(11-19-2019, 02:04 PM)jteneyck Wrote: First off, I'm for whoever asked why you would use inset drawers for shop cabinets.  Practice maybe?  Otherwise, I don't see the point.  Inset drawers are harder to install and let more dust into the drawer boxes, neither of which pleases me with shop cabinets.  


+1
Steve

Missouri






 
The Revos apparently are designed to clamp railroad ties and pull together horrifically prepared joints
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#22
(11-19-2019, 02:04 PM)jteneyck Wrote: First off, I'm for whoever asked why you would use inset drawers for shop cabinets.  Practice maybe?  Otherwise, I don't see the point.  Inset drawers are harder to install and let more dust into the drawer boxes, neither of which pleases me with shop cabinets.  

Anyway, I install the slides after the boxes are made.  If I have multiple cabinets with the same drawer sizes, I make a story pole for the C/L of the slides and use that to lay out where to drill the holes.  A Kreg jig would make installing both the slides and drawer boxes really easy, but I don't own one.   I will if I ever build another kitchen, however. 

For the drawer faces I fit them all into the cabinet with spacers first, 1/16" to 1/10" depending upon how tight I want them.  Wide drawer fronts need more space top and bottom to account for seasonal movement and since it's getting to be the low RH time of year it's time to consider "loose in  Winter, tight in Summer".  Inset drawers in cabinets with no faceframes are easy, just clamp them in place and drive screws from the inside.  But that often won't work for Cabinets with faceframes, as well as the top drawer of any style cabinet.  For those I drill two oversized holes in the drawer box and just hole the drawer front tight to the box and drive one screw, then check to see if all is well.  If it's not right I loosen that screw and slide the drawer front left, right, up, down, then retighten the screw.  If there's not enough play with the hole I move to the other oversized hole and repeat the process.  If I still can't get it right I take a break because I must be having a really bad day.  

An even easier method when using drawer pulls is to predrill the holes in the drawer fronts, shim them in place in the cabinet, and then drive a washer head screw threw the holes in the drawer front into the drawer box.  Then install the screws from inside the drawer box to hold the drawer front.  Next remove the temporary screws through the drawer front, drill through for the drawer pulls and use the long screws to install the pulls.  

As for screws, I use GRK Cabinet screws.  No predrilling of the drawer front required, even in hard maple and similar.  With narrow drawers, two screws, with drawers wider than about 3" it's 4 screws.  

John

Surprised to get push-back on inset drawers, from you John, and Steve (BTW, Joe thought they were 
Cool !). I suppose it's just a preference. The LOML and I are partial to Arts & Craft furniture; when we remodeled and added on to this house several years ago, we had custom cabinets made for the new kitchen and all the baths in that design, and all with inset drawers. Furniture all over the house is A & C. with the same style drawers - inset. Never thought about dust intrusion - will have to think about that one a bit. I plan to have the margin around the drawer fronts at around 1/16", maybe a little more for the four large drawers (two cabinets of two drawers each); climate where I live is quite arid, so less wood movement than in more humid environments.

I just double-checked the three rolling metal cabinets I have in the shop (two stainless steel and one with wooden fronted drawers) and they all have inset drawers. And "yes" I probably do like a challenge as building these cabinets is a first for me. Some of you will probably go apoplectic when I tell you I'm thinking about using cherry for the face frames and drawer fronts! 

The "Back Story" is that I have a friend who had a cabinet shop here in town. Notice I said "had." Unfortunately he had fire at his shop a little over two years ago that basically "fried" all of his equipment and did considerable damage to the interior of the main building. He was fortunate to get a very generous settlement from his insurance company and was at the age where he didn't want to crank it back up. Fortunately, he had his lumber supply in a contiguous room at the rear behind a fire proof wall, so it was spared. He retained the building, completely gutted the interior and built it back. He then sold it to another friend of ours here in town, the best of all worlds for him, as he retains the back room as his personal workshop (rents the space from the new owner). Of course he had to unload all of the lumber and was offering it at "fire sale" prices. I bought as much as I could handle and store, including the cherry and some beautiful QSWO in 4/4 and 8/4 sizes. Hence, the "fire sale" cherry. I don't build things out of cherry so it is kind of surplus for me. It will be either that or some other QSWO I have hanging around the shop (not the batch from his fire sale - that is earmarked for some projects in the house, which John is familiar with).

I know this is a long-winded story but hopefully it explains my motives. This shop is also kind of a retreat for me; I have a TV down there (pure heresy, I know) and will have a PC station in this bank of cabinets. So rather than just a woodworking workshop I suppose the hip folks nowadays call it a "man cave" (never really warmed up to that term for some reason). I used this area as my "work area" while we were re-doing the house, as I did all the interior framing, trim work, ceramic tile, hardwood flooring, etc. myself. Now I'm attempting to finally make it my woodworking workshop.

John, I like your method of temporarily mounting the drawer fronts with the holes for the hardware. I also like the idea of using the screw points protruding through the drawer box to locate the drawer front. Again, I thank you all for your tips and suggestions and welcome more to come! I'll post some pics in this thread once I really get rolling. I've cut out all of the panels and made a couple of jigs to help with clamping and alignment. Hope to assemble the first box tomorrow.

Thanks,

Doug
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#23
Doug, you don't have to justify your motives to me or anyone else.  FWIW, I agree that inset drawers look very good and are a sign of the care with which the cabinet was built, with the caveat of when well done.  I only questioned why you would spend the considerable extra time required to do them well, and I know you will, for shop cabinets.  Face frames, too, for that matter.  But if that's what you want then have at it.  

And I won't make a single comment about using cherry for shop cabinets.  Nope, not going to do it.  

Enjoy building them. You have the perfect machine for putting together those face frames.  

John
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#24
(11-20-2019, 10:23 AM)jteneyck Wrote: Doug, you don't have to justify your motives to me or anyone else.  FWIW, I agree that inset drawers look very good and are a sign of the care with which the cabinet was built, with the caveat of when well done.  I only questioned why you would spend the considerable extra time required to do them well, and I know you will, for shop cabinets.  Face frames, too, for that matter.  But if that's what you want then have at it.  

And I won't make a single comment about using cherry for shop cabinets.  Nope, not going to do it.  

Enjoy building them. You have the perfect machine for putting together those face frames.  

John

John, not to belabor the point, but mine was not an effort to justify anything to anyone. Only to explain my preferences. Like you, whenever I build anything I tend to "overbuild" it. It's a curse I learned from my father. Being "anal" is another one of those inherited traits. 

Doug
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#25
I do as John suggested.

"An even easier method when using drawer pulls is to predrill the holes in the drawer fronts, shim them in place in the cabinet, and then drive a washer head screw threw the holes in the drawer front into the drawer box.  Then install the screws from inside the drawer box to hold the drawer front.  Next remove the temporary screws through the drawer front, drill through for the drawer pulls and use the long screws to install the pulls. "

One thing I would add is that I pre-drill the holes in the front of the drawer box (not to be confused with the "drawer front") that are used to mount the front to the box.   I usually do four (one at each corner) and I make sure to leave them far enough form the corners so I can get a drill in there to drive the screws that hold the drawer front to the drawer box.   You can guess how I learned that one.  It is a bear to drive those screws with a screwdriver when they are only a 1/2" from each corner.  I got burned because it was easy to pre-drill them from the outside of the box without realizing I would have to drive the screws from the inside of the box.  I use those washer head screws with oversized head and drill the holes slightly larger than the screw to allow for some slight adjustments if necessary.
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#26
(11-20-2019, 11:31 AM)BrentDH Wrote: I do as John suggested.

"An even easier method when using drawer pulls is to predrill the holes in the drawer fronts, shim them in place in the cabinet, and then drive a washer head screw threw the holes in the drawer front into the drawer box.  Then install the screws from inside the drawer box to hold the drawer front.  Next remove the temporary screws through the drawer front, drill through for the drawer pulls and use the long screws to install the pulls. "

One thing I would add is that I pre-drill the holes in the front of the drawer box (not to be confused with the "drawer front") that are used to mount the front to the box.   I usually do four (one at each corner) and I make sure to leave them far enough form the corners so I can get a drill in there to drive the screws that hold the drawer front to the drawer box.   You can guess how I learned that one.  It is a bear to drive those screws with a screwdriver when they are only a 1/2" from each corner.  I got burned because it was easy to pre-drill them from the outside of the box without realizing I would have to drive the screws from the inside of the box.  I use those washer head screws with oversized head and drill the holes slightly larger than the screw to allow for some slight adjustments if necessary.

I thought I was the only one who ever did that.  


A flexible shaft on your drill/driver will bail you out of the problem.  

John
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#27
Nothing fancy, but here's the first of two boxes I've finished so far. Takes quite a while to lay out, cut out the biscuit slots and assemble each one. Particle board for the sides and bottom, and plywood for the struts. Panel at back will also be plywood. All the cabinets will sit on a 4" marine plywood platform leveled to the floor. This bank of cabinets is going in a bay area so the particle board will not be visible.

[Image: 49104948348_e640eac628_z.jpg]
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#28
Hi, Doug

Personally, I'm a big fan of inset drawers in the shop...

[Image: HGv7xgK.jpg]

[Image: 07TYnyG.jpg]

For mine, once the boxes were made and the slides installed I would drill 5/16" holes in the front of the drawer for the mounting screws. I would then install the drawer in the cabinet and mount the drawer front onto the drawer - making the screws snug enough to hold the drawer in place, but not so tight that I couldn't adjust them to get an even reveal all the way around. I did one drawer at a time - with the other drawers removed - so I could reach into the drawer I'm working on through the space above it or from the top. I start from the bottom and work my up, using the plastic laminate samples you get from the box stores as spacers. 

Two pennies worth...
Dave
"One should respect public opinion insofar as is necessary to avoid starvation and keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyrany, and is likely to interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
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#29
Dave, that is a Taj Mahal to woodworking you have there.  Amazing.  

John
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#30
Thanks Dave for the tips and your opinion on the drawers. Yes, inset drawers do have a better look IMO. BTW, I've admired your shop several times from pics you've posted previously - as John has already said, it is a real beauty and a testament to your planning and effort!

That miter saw(s)/RAS station is one to behold!
Smile

Doug
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