Ceiling Light Problem
#11
  
Good Morning folks - I have a two bulb fixture at the bottom of the basement stairs.  it is operated by a pair of three way switches.  Less than a month ago I replaced one of the bulbs.  Several days ago botgh bulbs stopped working - they sound bad in that they "rattle".  When removing them I noticed a brown goo around both of the bulb fixtures - one worse than the other.  I decided to remove the entire fixture and check it out.  I found the goo on the outside of the bulb fixtures.  In addition the bulb fixture wires all had cracked insulation with bare wires - one fixture was worse than the other.  I am assuming the light fixture was original to the house so it is likely 22 years old.

Goes without saying the light fixture is going to be replaced but I'm concerned with the why - is it possible this is just age?  I don't see any indication on the primary circuit wires of a problem (charring,  brittleness, etc).  I also noticed that the bulb holder wires were brittle for several inches from the holder but from that point back to the circuit connection the fixture wires were OK - not brittle.

Any thoughts?
Rick

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#12
  Re: Ceiling Light Problem by Rick_B (Good Morning folks -...)
(12-04-2019, 12:25 PM)Rick_B Wrote: Good Morning folks - I have a two bulb fixture at the bottom of the basement stairs.  it is operated by a pair of three way switches.  Less than a month ago I replaced one of the bulbs.  Several days ago botgh bulbs stopped working - they sound bad in that they "rattle".  When removing them I noticed a brown goo around both of the bulb fixtures - one worse than the other.  I decided to remove the entire fixture and check it out.  I found the goo on the outside of the bulb fixtures.  In addition the bulb fixture wires all had cracked insulation with bare wires - one fixture was worse than the other.  I am assuming the light fixture was original to the house so it is likely 22 years old.

Goes without saying the light fixture is going to be replaced but I'm concerned with the why - is it possible this is just age?  I don't see any indication on the primary circuit wires of a problem (charring,  brittleness, etc).  I also noticed that the bulb holder wires were brittle for several inches from the holder but from that point back to the circuit connection the fixture wires were OK - not brittle.

Any thoughts?

You Sure are lucky a fixture that lasted 22 years
the sockets are cooked 
replaced the fixture with a LED be done with it
south vietnam war collage
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#13
  Re: Ceiling Light Problem by Rick_B (Good Morning folks -...)
When you say bulb I assume incandescent bulbs . They produce alot of heat and if it is a fixture with a glass dome it traps thet heat and will bake the wires. Plus was there the proper watt rated bulb used?? Many times homeowners step up wattage on a fixture that is not rated for it and this increases the heat factor. But that is a good run out of the fixture. Today there are better fixtures and bulbs to combat that heat.
John T.
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#14
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by JTTHECLOCKMAN (When you say bulb I ...)
(12-04-2019, 02:39 PM)JTTHECLOCKMAN Wrote: When you say bulb I assume incandescent bulbs . They produce alot of heat and if it is a fixture with a glass dome it traps thet heat and will bake the wires. Plus was there the proper watt rated bulb used?? Many times homeowners step up wattage on a fixture that is not rated for it and this increases the heat factor. But that is a good run out of the fixture. Today there are better fixtures and bulbs to combat that heat.

Yes - incandescant bulbs and glass dome.  I just bought an LED fixture for replacement.  Actually I bought two because there is a second light at a landing halfway up the steps that is in the same set of switches so it will get replaced as well.

Thanks
Rick

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#15
  Re: Ceiling Light Problem by Rick_B (Good Morning folks -...)
We replaced every fixture in the house with either LED fixtures or new fixtures with LED bulbs. Including installing a lot of the newer 1/2 inch thick recessed pucks. All the switches and receptacles have been replaced too with the exception of one room. Haven't had a problem with any of them. I was amazed how many loose connections I found in a 30 year old house.
 
"My mortgage self-identifies as a student loan."
... Kizar Sozay


Neil Summers Home Inspections
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#16
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by JIMB49 ([quote='Rick_B' pid=...)
(12-04-2019, 01:05 PM)JIMB49 Wrote: .... replace the fixture with a LED be done with it

I keep seeing these fixtures-- LED lasts a LONG time, but not as long as you might like to keep a light fixture.  While I think it's great they just integrate the LEDs into the fixture, i really wish they had LED bulbs instead.  This way when it burns out (which it WILL), the average homeowner can replace the bulb and be back in business in a matter of minutes.  


Colin
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#17
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by Snipe Hunter (We replaced every fi...)
(12-05-2019, 09:15 AM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: I was amazed how many loose connections I found in a 30 year old house.

My house is 18 years old.  Every time I have an electrical fixture or switch problem, I have to replace both.  I find evidence of shorts, stab connectors not fully seated used instead of screws, he never trimmed back the wiring and just shoved them into boxes, etc.  Very sloppy wiring, I'm told by neighbors that the electrician sub was known to drink on the job and it shows.  So far, I've replace perhaps 75% of the fixtures and switches, and done some more work in the panel as well.  How it passed inspection is a mystery, some money must have changed hands somewhere....  But after the first few repairs, I've gotten over it.  He also screwed up the wiring for the smoke detectors, which I've fixed.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#18
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by Admiral ([quote='Snipe Hunter...)
Concerning incandescent vs LED bulbs, I wounder if anyone else has noticed this. I was changing out some incandescent bulbs with leds a short time ago and noticed on the led box a statement that the bulbs were not recommended for enclosed fixtures. I took them back to the store and tried to find some that were OK for that purpose. Couldn't find any. The sales person said to not worry about it. They all say that. It is just the mfgr covering their back sides. I haven't had any problems with using leds inside of a glass globe but, I'm not sure who is correct.
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#19
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by Willyou (Concerning incandesc...)
(12-05-2019, 07:17 PM)Willyou Wrote: Concerning incandescent vs LED bulbs, I wounder if anyone else has noticed this. I was changing out some incandescent bulbs with leds a short time ago and noticed on the led box a statement that the bulbs were not recommended for enclosed fixtures. I took them back to the store and tried to find some that were OK for that purpose. Couldn't find any. The sales person said to not worry about it. They all say that. It is just the mfgr covering their back sides. I haven't had any problems with using leds inside of a glass globe but, I'm not sure who is correct.

 you know it a funny thing you replace fixtures because they  are not want you want to see anymore or are worn out!!
the biggest reason is " we saw something better"
 the LED bulbs have a small driver /power supply in the base-that's heat not much but still heat
that heat has to go someplace the heat is not as much as a incandescent lamp that cooks the sockets
the better fixtures sockets are ceramic not plastic
I've been a electrician for aver 50 years  over 30 in the union and help my son in law he's got 20 in
I love woodworking more!!
no idea how many fixtures we have replaced because of the "cooked" reason
or the recessed cans to LED panels 
we did one the two weeks back 42 cans
they wanted to stop changing bulbs
love his Quote "you pick the fixture and I'll hang it"
Oh LED are here to stay and the keep getting better and cheaper
south vietnam war collage
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#20
  Re: RE: Ceiling Light Problem by Willyou (Concerning incandesc...)
(12-05-2019, 07:17 PM)Willyou Wrote: Concerning incandescent vs LED bulbs, I wounder if anyone else has noticed this. I was changing out some incandescent bulbs with leds a short time ago and noticed on the led box a statement that the bulbs were not recommended for enclosed fixtures. I took them back to the store and tried to find some that were OK for that purpose. Couldn't find any. The sales person said to not worry about it. They all say that. It is just the mfgr covering their back sides. I haven't had any problems with using leds inside of a glass globe but, I'm not sure who is correct.

         Yeah most will say that on the box if they have anything to read in english. LEDs like mentioned above have drivers that produce heat. They vary in design between a capacitive dropper and a switching power supply. 

      Capacitive ones are the cheapest and have a big red capacitor in them that are made by the billions and they are not very good.
  
      Switching supplies are better but you will have flicker from them that people with migraines will have an issue with. 

       I didn't mention constant current supplies as few have them and almost never in a single bulb unit. They are the best in that they don't have a flicker to them.

          Then you get to the other bigger heat producer and that is the LEDs themselves. LEDs are mounted on an aluminum backed PCB and often have cast aluminum heat sinks with fins to dissipate the heat they produce. LED lighting does produce heat but that heat stays in the bulb. They don't produce the radiated heat that incandescents do so most people thing they don't get hot.

         The biggest issue that many fail to realize is that many light fixtures now are disposable. The entire fixture is junk when the LED power supply dies and it is a common problem. These fixtures don't use conventional bulbs and unless you know how to use a soldering iron and can do minor electronics repair you will not be able to fix them. Some larger fixtures have a power supply that can be changed though. 
         So basically these new fixtures do use less electricity (sort of) they create a huge amount of waste in their future when they stop working. As to the energy saved... Well it's not as good as you think. They do use less power however their powerfactor is often very bad. Most good ones are close to 80 but many are as low as 20. 
          Basically if it's a light with a rating of 20 watts and it's powerfactor is 50 the electric company is having to produce 40 watts to power that light. So technically a 20 watt incandesent uses less electricity than a 20 watt LED (comparing actual electricity used not light output) That's a very simplified example but you get the idea. This is why the new electronic meters on houses also read the powerfactor. Commercial elec users already pay a fee for powerfactor and it's a matter of time before it hits residential here in the US. It is already done in parts of the world.
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