Inexpensive Saws

[cputnam]

Just used a Home Depot Japanese style saw (the kind with on one edge an cut on the other edge.) Combined with the Veritas/Lee Valley magnetic saw fence, I use cutting less than 1/16" off poplar ends. It made a fine kerf and left a smooth finish. For a similar task, I also used a Stanley Fat Max toolbox saw. It, too, cut beautifully. It made a wider kerf, of course, and cut faster since it has a coarser tooth pattern. Moral of the story is that inexpensive saws from the Borg may worth a look.

[Master-of-None]

Just used a Home Depot Japanese style saw (the kind with on one edge an cut on the other edge.)  Combined with the Veritas/Lee Valley magnetic saw fence, I use cutting less than 1/16" off poplar ends.  It made a fine kerf and left a smooth finish.  For a similar task, I also used a Stanley Fat Max toolbox saw.  It, too, cut beautifully.  It made a wider kerf, of course, and cut faster since it has a coarser tooth pattern.  Moral of the story is that inexpensive saws from the Borg may worth a look.

I agree, they do leave a nice edge when they are new and sharp. The only issue for me is that when they become dull, since the teeth are hardened, there is not way to sharpen them.

[CStan]

Use what makes sense for you. Other than for certain joinery cuts, all other cuts are dressed to a marked line with a plane. There isn't a soul in the whole wide world who could tell whether you ripped or crosscut a board with a vintage, collectible Disston or a toolbox saw from the Big Box.

Don't ever for a minute let yourself feel bad because you aren't sourcing your entire kit from vintage, and from a particular slice of time at that. Ditto current boutique offerings.

[Rob Young]

Just used a Home Depot Japanese style saw (the kind with on one edge an cut on the other edge.)  Combined with the Veritas/Lee Valley magnetic saw fence, I use cutting less than 1/16" off poplar ends.  It made a fine kerf and left a smooth finish.  For a similar task, I also used a Stanley Fat Max toolbox saw.  It, too, cut beautifully.  It made a wider kerf, of course, and cut faster since it has a coarser tooth pattern.  Moral of the story is that inexpensive saws from the Borg may worth a look.

Great Neck was selling a decent 22" or 24", I forget the exact size, handsaw, probably 24". I don't believe the plate is tapered but you can compensate with a smidge more set to the teeth. If I recall correctly, in the vicinity of 12tpi so makes for a nice x-cut saw for all-around use. Can be resharpened since it isn't using hardened teeth.

Handle is a bit clunky but I've never gotten around to modifying it. It is my saw for stock breakdown out on the driveway.

[Admiral]

Great Neck was selling a decent 22" or 24", I forget the exact size, handsaw, probably 24". I don't believe the plate is tapered but you can compensate with a smidge more set to the teeth.

I've seen some non-hardened handsaws at the HF as well with very clunky handles.  As long as they use high carbon spring steel, and the Rc of the steel is somewhere around 50, +/-, it will hold an edge and be able to be sharpened.  What these saws lack vis-a-vis say, a vintage Disston or Atkins is the taper grind of the plate, hammer tensioning (the "ring") of the plate and a more ergonomic handle and "hang" of the saw; all finer points of saw manufacture that add cost, but all of which make a difference in use.  But I'll admit if you're not pushing a handsaw all day long, not much of a difference, its all more nuance, each will saw wood.  Just like anything else, a matter of personal preference.  All of my handsaws are vintage, and only some of my backsaws, as I do have some joinery saws of recent manufacture.

[hbmcc]

Great Neck was selling a decent 22" or 24", I forget the exact size, handsaw, probably 24". I don't believe the plate is tapered but you can compensate with a smidge more set to the teeth. If I recall correctly, in the vicinity of 12tpi so makes for a nice x-cut saw for all-around use. Can be resharpened since it isn't using hardened teeth.

Handle is a bit clunky but I've never gotten around to modifying it. It is my saw for stock breakdown out on the driveway.

Just checked and $15 is pretty attractive for the 20"/12 tpi, in case you are mowing through dirt and grime. And, it comes with a ready-made 90/45 angle template. You can always work on the 'sexy' since the handle is wood.

[cputnam]

I was using the Fat Max to cut up scrap and cardboard cartons. I do not know why I tried it real wood but the result was excellent. As Admiral points out, vintage saws have a number of good points that fall in the range of nuance exce[t for the handles. The cheap stuff is almost reaching the level of functionality but not comfort. The Japanese style saw really blew my mind by cleanly taking off 1/6 without blowing out the offcut.

I save my vintage stuff for "important" work because the borg stuff costs less than having a good saw sharpened and certainly less than the shipping both ways. What is the cost of setting up for both handsaw and hacksaw filing at home these days? What is the time investment?

[adamcherubini]

I've seen some non-hardened handsaws at the HF as well with very clunky handles.  As long as they use high carbon spring steel, and the Rc of the steel is somewhere around 50, +/-, it will hold an edge and be able to be sharpened.  What these saws lack vis-a-vis say, a vintage Disston or Atkins is the taper grind of the plate, hammer tensioning (the "ring") of the plate and a more ergonomic handle and "hang" of the saw; all finer points of saw manufacture that add cost, but all of which make a difference in use.  But I'll admit if you're not pushing a handsaw all day long, not much of a difference, its all more nuance, each will saw wood.  Just like anything else, a matter of personal preference.  All of my handsaws are vintage, and only some of my backsaws, as I do have some joinery saws of recent manufacture.

You got it. The key is pushing a saw all day long. If you try to build a project without power tools, you quickly discover what a miserable chore hand sawing can be. Planing? Meh. Even rough sawn stock can be smoothened pretty easily. Sawing takes skill and muscle. I likened it to running, physically. If you could save 5% on a special tooth filing, that would be worth it. If a better handle got you another 5%, you’d jump for joy. That could save 20 minutes or more per day of hard work. A sharp saw could knock hours off a week of work.

If you use a saw for 5 minutes a day, the impulse hardened saws will probably suit you fine.

[Admiral]

What is the cost of setting up for both handsaw and hacksaw filing at home these days?  What is the time investment?

Hacksaw, well, not a clue.

Handsaws, well the TGIAG website has a shop made saw vice designed by Blacky's Boy, excellent.  Because I rehab and sharpen saws, I splurged for the TFWW vice about 5 years ago, none better except for the Acme, and the latter will cost you plenty if you can find one.

That being said, shop build a vice (it does not have to be fancy), buy the Veritas saw file holder, read Pete Taran's Saw Filing Primer, buy a few saw files, and pick up a saw set and a bas*t*ard mill file for jointing, and you're in business, especially if your handsaws don't require extensive jointing and retoothing, its not all that hard to maintain a saw properly filed in the first place.  Touchups are pretty easy if you maintain your rake and fleam angles, and the file holder does that very well.  To fully rehab and file a saw plate from a flea market find, it takes me about 2.5 hours, sometimes more.  To refresh a handsaw in good shape, a light jointing and one pass takes about a half hour, 45 minutes, if you don't have to reform the teeth.  Sure, you have to practice a few times on a beater, but once you get it down, and for the first time take your a saw from the vice, dress the sides, and put it to wood and it cuts like butter, straight and true, it's an epiphany.  I think I actually heard angels singing......  lol

[cputnam]

Darn, my legendary typing skills strike again. Meant to type Backsaw (as in 12+ TPI)