18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake?
#21
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by jteneyck (You want a brake.  M...)
(04-11-2020, 10:26 AM)jteneyck Wrote: You want a brake.  My 17" Grizzly G0636X will spin for several minutes if I don't step on the brake.  Not good from a safety standpoint.  And I agree with Doug, you should reconsider the Grizzly.  I've never heard anyone before reject a saw because they thought the bearings were located suboptimally.  I've never heard anyone here report having a wheel bearing fail early, or any failure for that matter, on a Grizzly bandsaw.  FWiW, the hi/lo fence system on my saw is outstanding.  

John

Thanks John and Doug

Brake: I hear you. I also have young kids--which amplifies your safety point.
Grizzly: I hear you and Doug. This forum LOVES that saw for many good reasons. It's def the best bang for the buck. I had a 21" Delta at work years ago that had a similar face-siding rear bearing guide and it only lasted 6 months. It's just a terrible design. It encourages the blade to travel sideways and it can't easily roll along with the blade. It's a total deal breaker for me. 
Grizzly fence: totally agree. I actually put it on my 14" old Delta. Totally rocks.
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#22
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by TDKPE ([quote='Murray M' pi...)
(04-11-2020, 10:28 AM)TDKPE Wrote: What do you mean by "underpowered"?  You don't have 240V available?  Or you have 240V but a low-power subpanel?


My shop is in an old barn with no sub panel--I have a few power lines that come over from the house [it's pretty shakey]. It will cost me a lot to install the sub panel.  I fully intend to add the sub panel and if now is the time then now is the time. My wallet would like me to put it off but it will certainly need to happen sometime in the next 1-2 years.

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Update a month later: I decided to install the sub panel. This will effect everything...
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#23
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([quote='jteneyck' pi...)
(04-11-2020, 12:25 PM)Murray M Wrote: Thanks John and Doug

Brake: I hear you. I also have young kids--which amplifies your safety point.
Grizzly: I hear you and Doug. This forum LOVES that saw for many good reasons. It's def the best bang for the buck. I had a 21" Delta at work years ago that had a similar face-siding rear bearing guide and it only lasted 6 months. It's just a terrible design. It encourages the blade to travel sideways and it can't easily roll along with the blade. It's a total deal breaker for me. 
Grizzly fence: totally agree. I actually put it on my 14" old Delta. Totally rocks.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about bearings in the wheels. The Grizzly that Doug linked to has the same blade guide system as on my G0636X from the looks of it.  I've had my saw for 3 years and have never had an issue with the guide bearings.  I regularly cut veneer with my saw, too, which puts more load on everything than cutting thin stock.  The thrust bearing design is essentially the same as on my 14" Delta, which they have made forever.  I think I've replaced one set of thrust bearings on that saw in the 25 years I've owned it.  Unless you are cutting abrasive materials, it's a non-issue. 

John
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#24
  Re: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([size=small]The thre...)
I have the 18" Jet with the smaller motor and lack of power has never been an issue.  I don't do a lot of resawing, but when I do I use a good sharp blade.  Never used a brake so I cannot address that point.
"I tried being reasonable..........I didn't like it." Clint Eastwood
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#25
  Re: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([size=small]The thre...)
(04-10-2020, 08:53 PM)Murray M Wrote: I'll use this saw to cut straight lines in mostly plywood and 2X stock. I'll RARELY use it for resawing. 

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think an 18" bandsaw is the best tool for this role?

Plywood seems to be very awkward on a bandsaw due to the small table.  I'd be thinking track saw, table saw, sliding table saw...

Ripping 2x stock seems to be a surprising cut, as well.  (seems like 2x stock is normally bought at its intended width, and then just cut to length)  Is this a specific step in a production sequence?  Are you planning to make support tables around the saw?

I'd recommend the bigger motor if you are ripping thick hardwoods or resawing, but wouldn't seem necessary for plywood or 2x softwoods.
Not sure that the thrust bearing orientation is the issue you are anticipating.


Matt
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#26
  Re: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([size=small]The thre...)
I don't know which is the best saw for you but I encourage you to buy one with a brake. My previous 17" Griz had no brake and took forever to spin down. My new G0513X2B stops in about 2 seconds.

g
I've only had one...in dog beers.

If hummus is made from Garbanzo beans, why isn't it called Garbanzus?
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#27
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([quote='TDKPE' pid='...)
(04-11-2020, 12:33 PM)Murray M Wrote: My shop is in an old barn with no sub panel--I have a few power lines that come over from the house [it's pretty shakey]. It will cost me a lot to install the sub panel.  I fully intend to add the sub panel and if now is the time then now is the time. My wallet would like me to put it off but it will certainly need to happen sometime in the next 1-2 years.

Ah - that kind of underpowered.  And that leads to another potential problem; a very long run of 120V wire to the 1.75 hp BS is going to create its own problems.  That’s the biggest 120V motor you can get that’ll run on a 20A circuit*, and with a long wire run, it’ll be running on flabby voltage and depending on the total length of the run from the panel to the saw, it may have difficulty even starting.  If it does start ok, it will draw more current under load than if the circuit was short.  Or oversized (heavier wire).

How far away would the saw be in the barn from the panel in your house?  If you need to run a circuit for it, you’d might as well run a 4-wire feeder to a small subpanel.**  To save money, do all or most of the work yourself.  If you’re not comfortable doing electric work, most sparkies are fine with you doing the trenching, which they really don’t want to do anyway.  But the connections are simple enough.  Small panels are cheap, and you can get ‘starter’ panels which include a handful of breakers.  

Just something to be aware of.

*That’s why it’s 1-3/4 hp, a non-standard size, and not 2 hp - to get the UL listing on 120V. 
**Technically, you’re not supposed to have more than one circuit to an outbuilding anyway.
Tom

“This place smells like that odd combo of flop sweat, hopelessness, aaaand feet.”







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#28
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by TDKPE ([quote='Murray M' pi...)
(04-12-2020, 08:34 AM)TDKPE Wrote: Ah - that kind of underpowered.  And that leads to another potential problem; a very long run of 120V wire to the 1.75 hp BS is going to create its own problems.  That’s the biggest 120V motor you can get that’ll run on a 20A circuit*, and with a long wire run, it’ll be running on flabby voltage and depending on the total length of the run from the panel to the saw, it may have difficulty even starting.  If it does start ok, it will draw more current under load than if the circuit was short.  Or oversized (heavier wire).

How far away would the saw be in the barn from the panel in your house?  If you need to run a circuit for it, you’d might as well run a 4-wire feeder to a small subpanel.**  To save money, do all or most of the work yourself.  If you’re not comfortable doing electric work, most sparkies are fine with you doing the trenching, which they really don’t want to do anyway.  But the connections are simple enough.  Small panels are cheap, and you can get ‘starter’ panels which include a handful of breakers.  

Just something to be aware of.

*That’s why it’s 1-3/4 hp, a non-standard size, and not 2 hp - to get the UL listing on 120V. 
**Technically, you’re not supposed to have more than one circuit to an outbuilding anyway.

darn.
REALLY great point. 
I love this forum. 

This changes my mind big time.
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#29
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by mdhills ([quote='Murray M' pi...)
(04-11-2020, 03:07 PM)mdhills Wrote: I'd be interested in hearing more about why you think an 18" bandsaw is the best tool for this role?

Plywood seems to be very awkward on a bandsaw due to the small table.  I'd be thinking track saw, table saw, sliding table saw...

Ripping 2x stock seems to be a surprising cut, as well.  (seems like 2x stock is normally bought at its intended width, and then just cut to length)  Is this a specific step in a production sequence?  Are you planning to make support tables around the saw?

I'd recommend the bigger motor if you are ripping thick hardwoods or resawing, but wouldn't seem necessary for plywood or 2x softwoods.
Not sure that the thrust bearing orientation is the issue you are anticipating.


Matt

I use a Festool track saw and their nice track saw table for breaking down sheets. 
I make a lot of medium sized stuff that's too big for my 14" BS and would fit a 18 nicely. 
I also want to make the 14" a dedicated curve saw and the 18" will be a dedicated straight saw. 

(I'm a sculptor who makes unusual cuts--that's why I'd use 2X stock in a BS. The point I was trying to make was that I don't generally need a lot of power in a BS--I'm not resawing hardwood).
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#30
  Re: RE: 18" Bandsaw: Do I Need 3hp & Brake? by Murray M ([quote='mdhills' pid...)
Thanks to TDKPE's great point, I'm now am no longer concerned about the power/HP question. I now realize I need to add a sub panel. 

Also I mistakenly thought the Laguna 18BX had the same fence as the 14BX. Sorry for my previously wrong judgement. 

I'm listening to everyone and looking up everything that's out there--even reading the manuals for both saws. Here's how I see it:


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The big advantage of the Laguna over the Jet is the brake. It's also got a better trunnion and I'm charmed by the elegant optional wheel kit. That said, the Jet's details tend to be metal whereas the Laguna's details tend to be plastic. Also, I've read several places that Laguna's bottom guides can be tricky to gain access to and may require the table to be rotated 45 degrees up for access [depending on the operators skill and hand size].

Having seen and read just about everything on the web that I can find on blade guides--including advocates and haters for all options--the following points stand out to me:
1) Ceramic guides are better as the side guides. Side bearing guides require more maintenance and can force sawdust to compress onto the sides of the blade.
2) Bearing guides are better as the thrust (rear) guides [in the correct side facing orientation so that the bearing rolls with the blade--not the old fashioned problematic orientation where the face of the bearing is against the blade which tends to send the blade to the side]. Properly mounted thrust bearings travel with the blade and reduce friction better than ceramic thrust pads [which acquire grooves if not rotated every 8 hours of use--which is recommended in the Laguna manual]. 
3) So a ceramic guide system has advantages for cutting curves since curves engage side guides more and a bearing guide system has advantages for cutting straight lines since the thrust guide is doing most of the work. 

Jet's advantage over the Laguna is bearing guides [assuming you're like me and will mostly use this saw for straight cuts]. It's also got a slightly better fence, better customer service reputation. 


The conclusion I'm coming to is both saws are great. It might even comes down to aesthetics. Laguna seems to have an advantage for curves and has a brake. Jet seems to have an advantage for straight cuts, slightly better fit and finish, warranty [Jet is 5 year and Laguna is difficult to find--I've tried for longer than I want to] and customer service reputation. 

I *really* wish I could see and touch both saws before deciding!

I'm still on the fence.
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